Immunization has transformed the health trajectory of millions in Africa — but the job is far from done. This discussion moves beyond vaccines as a medical intervention, framing them instead as a trust-building exercise between communities and health systems. You’ll come away with a clear sense of what it will take to protect Africa’s health gains and prepare for future threats.

Helen Clark offers high-level insights on vaccine diplomacy, while Dr. Jamal Ahmed unpacks the operational and political hurdles to reaching every child. Dr. Esias Bedingar adds a front-line perspective on combating misinformation and delivering care in fragile settings. Vaccines have saved millions of lives across the continent — but more work remains. This episode explores both the progress made and the gaps that still need to be closed.

Guests

• Helen Clark, former Prime Minister of New Zealand, former Director of UN Development Program and member of the Elders

• Dr. Jamal Ahmed, WHO Director for Polio Eradication

• Dr. Esias Bedingar, Program Manager at Big Win Philanthropy and former Special Advisor to the Prime Minister of Chad.

Background Materials

Vaccination Progress in Africa – Millions of Lives Saved, WHO Africa

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The episode is freely available across all podcast listening platforms. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure sign up for our newsletter to get each new episode and transcripts delivered straight to your inbox

Africa’s future will be written by its girls and women — if they have the resources and rights to lead. Graça Machel calls for a generational shift in how girls’ education and leadership are supported, while Françoise Moudouthe challenges donors and policymakers to back feminist movements with flexible, sustained funding. Satta Sheriff brings the voice of a new generation, connecting women’s leadership to broader fights for climate justice, peace, and economic inclusion. This episode is full of hard truths about the barriers girls and women face, paired with inspiring examples of what happens when those barriers come down.

Guests

• Graça Machel, women’s and children's rights advocate; former freedom fighter and first Education Minister of Mozambique; co-founder of The Elders.

• Françoise Moudouthe, CEO of the African Women’s Development Fund

• Satta Sheriff, Human Rights Activist & African Union Panel of the Future Member

Background Materials

• Women’s Rights in Review 30 years after Beijing, UN Women

• Futures Africa: Trends for Women by 2030, The African Women’s Development Fund

• African Young Women B+25 Manifesto, African Union

The episode is freely available across all podcast listening platforms. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure sign up for our newsletter to get each new episode and transcripts delivered straight to your inbox.

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Transcript edited for clarity

Speaker 1:

The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those of the guests and hosts, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast partners. And a note on this episode — this conversation mentions incidences of violence, which some listeners might find disturbing.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Welcome to The Future of Africa — a special series on Global Dispatches. I am Mark Leon Goldberg, the host and founder of Global Dispatches. And in several episodes over the coming weeks, we will bring you in-depth conversations designed to explore Africa’s future in the context of today’s challenges and opportunities. This series is produced in partnership with the African Union, The Elders, and the United Nations Foundation, and is hosted by the Kenyan journalist, Adelle Onyango.

I am truly thrilled to bring you this special project of Global Dispatches. We have some amazing guests in this episode and throughout the series. Enjoy!

Adelle Onyango:

Welcome to the Future of Africa podcast. I’m your host, Adelle Onyango, and this is a show where we explore the bold ideas and leaders shaping Africa’s place in the world. Across the continent, young women and girls are rising. We are breaking barriers, we challenging norms and reshaping what leadership looks like in Africa. As we approach the 30th anniversary of the historic Beijing Platform for Action, this episode spotlights the power and potential of African women and girls in shaping the continent’s priorities and global influence. Joining me are three phenomenal women from different generations and regions. First up is Ms. Graça Machel, who really needs no introduction, but she’s a global advocate for women and children’s rights and a member of The Elders. And she’s going to be bringing decades of experience advancing gender equality and social justice.

Graça Machel:

They have the power. They have the voice. What they need is the space to express themselves.

Adelle Onyango:

We’re also going to be joined by Françoise Moudouthe. She’s a Chief Executive Officer of the African Women’s Development Fund. She’s a bold feminist leader, and she’s building movements that center African women’s voices across the continent and beyond.

Françoise Moudouthe:

And what is lost then in our stories is our voice. So for me, it’s about centering our own voices in the telling of our stories.

Adelle Onyango:

Last but not least, we’re going to be joined by Satta Sheriff, a Liberian climate justice and child rights advocate, and a rising voice selected by the African Union Youth Envoy. She’s representing the next generation of African changemakers.

Satta Sheriff:

We can want all the change, but if we do not love where we come from, our roots, it’s easier for someone to come and just try to erase us.

Adelle Onyango:

Now, through their lived experiences and powerful insights, we’re going to be exploring how investing in women and girls transforms just not individual lives, but the future of Africa itself. So, first off, let’s jump right in with Ms. Graça Machel.

Adelle Onyango:

It’s such an honor to have you on this show, Graça Machel. Welcome.

Graça Machel:

Thank you very much for having me on this show.

Adelle Onyango:

Since the landmark Beijing Conference in 1995, how far do you think Africa has come since then?

Graça Machel:

We have some sectors in which we made really significant changes, and you can say it is fruits of the commands which came from Beijing. At that time, not all African governments had clear the policies, targets, institutional shaping to meet those targets on education, for instance. Today, any government on this continent has a policy on assets, retention, and success of girls in education. Some of the countries, in fact, they have reached already, I mean, 50% of enrollment in the first year of the systems. Our challenge has been now in retention and success, and even in transition from primary to secondary or to technical institutions. But it is no doubt that everybody has taken on board the importance and even put laws, regulations and, as I’m saying, institutions to make sure that education is provided to girls.

This is one thing. Today, it’s no longer a question of how do we bring women to political position. I’m talking of government, I’m talking of parliament, and even the judiciary. Policies are the… and some countries, in fact, have made very visible efforts to make sure that our governments have a gender balance. Africa has today the highest service retention of women in the judiciary. We do have also, I mean, the wonderful news of having the very first woman who was elected as a head of state. So, this is some good examples. But perhaps I should say the areas where we face much more challenge is the economy. Most of our economies on the continent, and the so-called informal sector, which means they’re not registered — these small businesses, they are not registered and they are not really acknowledged in the way of how to make them grow.

The economy, I think, it’s one of the areas where not even legislation and regulations are solid. So, the commands still haven’t been made.

Adelle Onyango:

So, to someone who’s listening, because we can push for policies to change, but policies and governance and systems are made by people. We’re the ones in there upholding them. What do you think we need to change in our mindset, as you’ve touched on, when it comes to how we view women on the continent, just as individuals, even?

Graça Machel:

I think we need very seriously to give the same value to a girl as to a boy. And that begins in the family. Girls having the same value, the same respect, and the same kind of incentives for a girl to flourish and to thrive. Some of our communities, they believe that, well, they have to promote boys, but girls, they have to remain at home to support the family. And they even go as far as to believe that they have the right to decide when she should get married, and when she’s marrying, the family she goes to believe they have the right to tell her how many children she should have. The societal norms which we have derived from the fact that it is not even the same values, the same respect, the same kind of incentive to a girl child as we do with boys.

And this is a huge impediment for us to achieve equality. So, how do we do this? I think we need to perhaps to have another coming together of the same courage, not in Beijing, but on the continent, where we discuss these things, we challenge these things. Our traditional leaders, they have to be the one to incentive to say, “In my community, I’m not going to accept that the young families which discriminate against girls. In my communities, whatever are the rituals, which they have to be performed to serve the beliefs of communities in a societal kind of relationship, but they should never violate the rights to a girl.”

I’m glad to say that girls begin to the ones who challenge this as well. It shouldn’t be defined by women alone. We need men and women to come forward, and really to recognize that between a man and a woman, there is no hierarchal of value. And they shouldn’t have even a hierarchy of power, but there should be complementarity amongst them, and bringing to the family different strengths, of course, but that enriches the family. It doesn’t make them inferior to others. And to continue also with public policy so that this education and this change of mindset has to be repeatedly reminded to all of us, particularly for those who want positions of leadership. It’s extremely important. So we have to have a movement from the grassroots, but we need to continue to have movement also in the public space.

Adelle Onyango:

When we’re looking at African women’s leadership and economic empowerment, education, as you’ve mentioned, what do you think, even international partners or regional organizations or even the work that you’re doing at Graça Machel Trust, what do you think needs to be prioritized so that we’re seeing these commitments from 30 years since, and all the commitments since then, being actualized in relation to African women in education, women’s leadership, and economic empowerment, especially?

Graça Machel:

There are already plans. There are already even networks which are working on this. They just need to do more and it will have much more results. Where I think we should prioritize this economy because you look around, you don’t find very clear commands which each government shouldn’t be compelled to implement to make sure that they bring women who are in the so-called informal sector to come into the formal economy. And the formal economy is the one which gives value, which can count, what is the contribution of women in GDP? But if their informal sector, although they provide stability to our families, millions of families, they depend on the informal sector, but this is not reflected in the GDP of the country. When the government doesn’t seem to have clear responsibilities of how to elevate this mediums to formal, and from the base, the first one we call small and medium enterprise.

What are the steps which should be taken to bring them to the big economy? And this is where the Graça Machel Trust come. We decide that because we have a privileged space in African landscape, then we should be focusing and raising these issues. So we start from what you can call the missing middle of those women who are in informal economy, but they’re so small, and they don’t manage to grow their business to be of a huge contribution to expand our economies. And we have been training women in terms of how to run properly their business and get it properly organized, how to advertise their businesses to have access to market, how they should know where to get capital to make their business grow because that’s where we feel we can bring this so-called contribution of African women in the small and medium to become the contribution in the big economy. Because it will benefit the economy, it will benefit society, it will benefit our political systems to be much more democratic, much more inclusive. And it will lead us to societies which are more stable and which are respecting the value of each one of its members.

Adelle Onyango:

What’s currently giving you hope for the future of African girls and women? What’s one place that you’re looking at and you’re like, this is great, and it’s fueling you?

Graça Machel:

When a child sees the suffering and say, “I want to be president of my country.” It is because one, she knows there’s no limit to what I can achieve? And that position, I deserve it. And I want to be the. These are not issues of giving us hope. They are giving us examples of how profound and by how high is the transformation, for example, of the mindset. And the mindset is saying there are no limits to any girl in this continent to where she can go. And I think, in my work, I have found thousands of these cases. It’s more than hope. It’s a snapshot of what is coming, what is flourishing, not in the eye of everyone. And so I will finish by saying our responsibility as those who have had, I mean so many privileges in the past, is exactly to create those so that these girls, very young ones, adolescents, and young women, they need a platform where they can express themselves.

They can assert themselves. They can exactly take control of the future they want for themselves for generations which follow them. So, it’s not going to happen. As we speak, there are millions of them. But where are they? How do we get to them? It is our responsibility to create those platforms so that they will use them. And you, we will find you, as you talk to me, you will see your sisters of your generation, which is not difficult to who are in any country, where you feel that taking control of the future is not things which are going to happen tomorrow. They are happening now, and we are the architects of that transformation.

Adelle Onyango:

I just have to say, it’s been such a pleasant experience having this conversation with you, so many tangible points you have given us, and so much value and thank you for the work you do and for making time to be with us on the show.

Graça Machel:

Well, thank you for this opportunity. And I just want to tell you that you don’t have to thank me. This is what we are here to do. For many reasons, we have been people who have been privileged. And with privilege comes responsibility. So, we are doing the responsibility we have really helping them, I mentioned to you, to create those spaces, to give you the visibility, to have the network, which will be the strength of the collective. Because you alone cannot change the world, but in a network, a big network, oh yes, the power you have, the capacity you have, the innovation you can bring together, it’s limitless. So, this is what we have to do more and more on the continent to give you the space, give you the visibility to listen to your colleagues.

And let me finalize with this. I don’t like the word of saying we are empowering girls. They have the power already. They are very powerful. It’s not for us to give them neither power, neither voice. They have the power. They have the voice. What they need is the space to express themselves, as we were saying, to network so that they will come with the strengths of working together so that, from a dozen of them, you will have hundreds, you will have thousands, thousands, hundreds of thousands. And then you have the millions taking the space which they deserve.

Adelle Onyango:

Let’s jump into the world of building movements across the continent with Françoise Moudouthe.

Françoise, thank you for taking time to be with us.

Françoise Moudouthe:

Thanks for having me.

Adelle Onyango:

When we talk about African women and girls, how can we reimagine the way their stories are told so that, yes, they’re sustainable investment, but we’re still honoring their agency, their diversity, their power and their complexity as well.?

Françoise Moudouthe:

The first thing for me is to think differently about who tells the story. The thing about our stories is that, as you said, they are often told, but very often not by us. And because of all the biases around who we are as African women, African girls, African gender diverse people, you know, that story when it is not told by us, it then becomes a story that is so layered with all the biases that people have had over decades and centuries, and what is lost in our stories is our voice. So, for me, it’s about centering our own voices in the telling of our stories. And once that is done, then the story immediately becomes a story of agency. It doesn’t become just a story of suffering or just a story of pain or anything like that. Because our lives, every single day, we look around, whether it’s an African market from Douala to Maputo, is the same agency that is buzzing.

So, I think it’s about who tells the story. And is that story focused on our voice or on other people’s perceptions? That tells the whole story for me.

Adelle Onyango:

What are your feelings around sustained investment in terms of telling our stories? How should we be careful that we are not trying to bend the story so that we get the funding, and we remain steadfast and very centered in our agency?

Françoise Moudouthe:

When it comes to our stories and how to invest in how our stories are told, I think the first thing to do is invest, as I said earlier, in who tells the story, and not come to people with the storyboard already. I think if you want the story of agency, you must invest in the agency, right? Instead of investor. Or this is a story, and who can tell that story? You look at who’s out there, give them the tools, give them the space because often you even have the tools. You don’t need to dictate the story to them. Just say, “Look, here’s a mic, just do the thing.” Theory is not always something that we have written down, but the reality is one that we’ve experienced.

And so if we look at our lived experiences, not like professional expertise, but really lived experiences, like the roots and the core of our knowledge and our learning and our movement building, that’s a very different story. So, in terms of investment, it’s investing — something investing; it’s not even money. It’s like pass the mic. Get out of the way and just pass the mic, and get out of the way and let people tell their stories. As somebody also I head the fund, I do, the African Women’s Development Fund, we are a grant maker. One of our strategic partners is really about investing in a very inclusive and agency-focused way in the narratives, the messaging, the knowledge, really the ancestral and agency-focused knowledge of African women, African girls, and Africans and diverse people. And just, again, like understanding what it takes, what they need to tell that story, making sure that is available, and literally get out of the way.

And when they’re done, give them the space and the opportunities to then amplify because it’s about telling the story. But we are in a sector where, by design, people will not listen. So, sometimes it’s about the telling of the story, but it’s fighting for the space for folks to listen. And so I think maybe being an investor in that sometimes is being a facilitator. Sometimes we don’t have the money. But what we do have, we have access, we have our own voices, we have connections. And so what we can do is use all of this to make sure that those stories are not just told, but that they are heard.

Adelle Onyango:

This is a very important year, Françoise. It’s 30 years post Beijing. This is a series of conferences that, here in Kenya, I still remember my late mom and her friends talking about it. It was even part of slang. It was such a huge event for women, especially in that generation. And now there are things we are able to do because of that. I just want to know your thoughts on how far we’ve come in the 30 years, first and foremost, and then looking forward because the show is about the future of Africa, what practical policy actions or commitments do we need to see, let’s say, African governments do, international partners do so that we shift the next 30 years and do our part?

Françoise Moudouthe:

At the Beijing Conference, the Beijing declaration, those were really groundbreaking moments. I think the main achievement for me was this spirit of we can do this for us, by us, with our own, but doing it across different regions and coming together with a collective agenda. I think that was very, very impressive. And when you speak to them now, they talk to you about the small things, the small wins, the small connections. There’s a lesson there that we tried to change the whole face of the universe, but only the small moves got done collectively made that happen. And that’s a lesson that I think we all need to continue to learn as we think about how to move the needle in this very, incredibly difficult context we are in right now.

I think some of the wins that we’ve had have been amazing in terms of policy, in terms of framing this basic concept that women’s rights are human rights, too. These are basic things that were put on the global policy scheme. I think there’s some really key issues around gender-based violence, some issues around economic empowerment is the word that was being used at the time, recognizing girls rights specifically as an area of work. I think there was some like basic recognition of the key issues as policy issues, not as personal struggle. I think that was very important, and led the way for the way governments organized national policies for this and that.

For me, the three keys for the future will be, one, coordination, you know, inspired by the spirit of our aunties. I call them the Beijing aunties. You know, like that ability to bring other forces, our thoughts together, and to coordinate. And sometimes it means not everybody is going to agree, but we need to at least agree on the core of what we’re pushing for. The second key for me is sustain the work to be able to see what’s the resources for this work is going to happen. Because I think one of the issues that we’ve dealt with since is Beijing is that we created that agenda and we made it dependent on people whose agenda is different to fund ours. Like, that is something that, as the Gen-Z said, “The math is not mathing.”

You know, like, this is not going to work. We cannot have this objective and use the platforms, use the money, use the spaces created by people who think very differently to advance our agenda. That’s just doomed to fail. It’s just doomed. It’s not going to happen. I think the third thing for me, I think something that we maybe haven’t prioritized as much, is movement building. And the only way through is together. And what does together mean? Is a question I ask myself. Together doesn’t just mean those of us who can quickly come together. We need to build movements from the margins in and think about centering the voices that we have marginalized for so long, whether because of where they are, or which languages they speak.

Maybe they don’t organize in the NGO way. And yet the feminists who are moving things in the banking industry are not part of what we call our movements. Right? I think movement building is exceptionally important. I think it’s actually the only way through and is the only way that we’re going to build the next 30 years is to come together in a very intentional, it will be difficult, I think, as well, but I think it’s going to be extremely important that we do that. Otherwise, there’s no way, and it’s not going to happen another way. So, we have to do the hard work of coming together, invest not just in the work, in the pieces of the work, but in the glue that takes all these pieces together and make it more than the sum of its parts.

Adelle Onyango:

In your experience, have you seen instances where the transformative impact of investing in women and girls in Africa worked and really even went past, only benefiting the women or the girls, but really benefiting the community?

Françoise Moudouthe:

I think there’s some work around covering the bases. There is this push for innovation, innovation, innovation. Look, I’m all for innovation, but somebody needs to hold the line, right? If we do not hold the line, we’ll still have babies dying from FGM. So, I think this holding the line work, which is sometimes seen as, not exciting, you know, like not new and shiny, but it needs to be done. I think the work there around social norms, I mean, I’m coming from also at the beginning of my career, working for a long time on ending child marriage — some of this work is grunt work, you know, going to the communities, engaging the community leaders who do the cutting, the grandmothers who cover up for the cut, like just going and doing this door to door awareness raising.

But maybe the language is different. Maybe the approach is different. But the holding the line work is very important, and it changes things because it empowers the individual, incentivizes the community. And it also like looks at the policies and the legislation, which is very critical. And then you have to look at the services, right? Because if your policy services, if your education services are not there, that’s not going to work. So, all of this, like holding the line work, very, very critical, the advocacy as well. So, I think that piece of work is very, very important. And I’m always excited to see, and from an issue to the other, I’m always excited because when the work is done, that doesn’t go away. And you will see those girls who are in those like empowerment programs that have now become the leaders… I mean, in our board, I’m very excited, we have a new board member who is from Niger and was one of those NGO your babies on family planning issues and doing this ground work.

And when I see her leadership in issues around sexual reproductive and reproductive health and rights globally, I just feel like that work that you do on the ground, you’re building up the people who will be the leaders of the tomorrow that we’re talking about. I guess the second thing I’m very excited about is to see the leadership programs. We cannot just assume leadership to be the byproduct of our work. It needs to be invested. So, I’m really excited about the feminist consciousness-building schools. We’ve seen some in East Africa as well for years and years, the AWLI, the African Women’s Leadership Institute, and some others that are coming up in West Africa, in North Africa. We’re seeing that’s coming up and up.

I think this is so critical because it gives people the basis, but not just the initial bases, like I want to say almost the feminist politics on which the work is being built. I think is very critical. So, I’m excited to see how this is building up because it’s very important that we don’t lose the core of the feminist politics as we do the work in a way that is professionalized and NGO-wise and funded and all of these things. So, I think that’s very important. And I’m always excited to see this. Because then when you see those leaders, wherever they end up in, whatever sector, whatever positions, sometimes just in their homes, I mean, the way they change the world around them, and again, I really believe in small changes coming together.

And the last thing that I’m really excited is when I see organizations thinking an entirely different future. I think a lot of us are stuck managing the day to day. And because it’s so overwhelming, it’s hard to see what is the future we are moving towards. We need to reimagine that future. I’m excited about organizations like now, for example, which is reimagining the future for economic justice and looking at trade and debt and equity issues that we often wait for because, like, hey, this looks complicated, but like, they can do it, you know, imagine a new economic order for the entire world that is rooted in the kind of values that we want to see for ourselves and for our daughters and our children in the future.

And that’s beautiful. And I think narrative is a common thread across that we have to do. But the other common thread is resources. I didn’t really understand the importance of resourcing until I joined the Africa Women Development Fund. And I realized, like, you don’t just have to mobilize resources, you have to mobilize the right kind of resources in so much more bigger amounts because there’s so much work to fund. And then you have to find a way to redistribute the resources in the way that you become the good funding that you are calling for, which means we have to transform our own ways.

And that’s been the work I’ve been doing AWDF for the past five years or so, to rethink ourselves. And sometimes we have to transform growing pains, but that is for the good of that future we’re talking about. So, we have to be willing to do the hard work of looking in the mirror and say, “How do we become what we’re calling for ourselves?” And yeah, sometimes it’s rethinking our systems, rethinking our processes, rethinking our politics, but always in a way that is in service of the people that we are here every day, that we wake up every day to serve.

Adelle Onyango:

I think in closing, what I want to know is what gives you hope for the future of African girls and young women?

Françoise Moudouthe:

I think what gives me hope, and what has been giving me hope lately, because it’s been a very difficult times, especially to be a leader in this sector and to be asked to inspire hope when you struggle to find it yourself. So I’ve been really looking around me, and like, where are the pockets of joy? Where the pockets on hope? And there’s two things that really give me hope. It gives me a lot of hope to look at the very, very young generation of African girls, African women, and diverse folks. Like my daughter is like mine, and the things she takes for granted that she doesn’t question her place in the world, you know, the things that she doesn’t have to fight.

I mean, she will encounter patriarchy in all of the ways, you know, I’m sure she already does in some ways, but her baseline is so much stronger. And I think I see this around us. I mean, I see the social media, I just see the younger partners that we have that they will not take no as the baseline. No. They will push for what they know their own, not what they hope their own. That baseline is very different. And so we have to protect that baseline from the attacks of the anti-gender and others because it’s just beautiful. It gives me so much hope to see younger people who don’t question their worth.

They don’t question whether being a woman or being African or being black is an issue of their worth. They see the issues, they’re like, “This is not my issue. Patriarchy is the issue, and I’m going to tackle it.” I love that. It gives me so much hope. Because it’s such an interesting thing to see for me to be in the middle between my daughter and my mother. And those are just generation after generation. So, I think we need to protect that baseline, and that baseline getting stronger, and stronger even as they keep moving the goalposts, but our baseline is getting stronger, and that is beautiful to see. And the second thing that really gives me a lot of hope in this year we’ve talked about Beijing, plus there has been a lot of intergenerational discussions.

We at AWDF actually hosted one in March this year, and it was beautiful to see, and the metaphor that kept coming back was the metaphor of a relay race, right? That the feminist aunties that went to Beijing, they did everything that they could. And it is upon us to take that baton. And what they did tell us that time is don’t drop the baton. Whatever happens, even if it’s only two steps that you can make, just do not drop the baton. I think this thing about seeing the baton being handed, for a long time, we saw the intergenerational dialogue space being one of confrontation. And I’m seeing this evolution. And I think the discussions around Beijing helped with that a lot, to be a place where we can be safe, even when we disagree.

But seeing the continuation rather than confrontation in this. And the intergeneration spaces, they are not easy, especially to facilitate, but I think they’re critically important because these are spaces where we realize the learning doesn’t just go one way. There’s a lot of kind of learning both ways and then learning sideways. You will learn every day from the people you didn’t even know were a carrier of knowledge. So, it goes back to the story, I think goes back to how do we use our stories to redefine who is a teacher and who is a learner, especially at a time where the entire world is facing things that our people have lived it for the longest time? So, who is a teacher now?

Adelle Onyango:

Oh, thank you so much for being on the podcast and for the work that you’re doing. We celebrate you, and I’m very sure everybody who is listening to this is super inspired. So, thank you so much.

Françoise Moudouthe:

Thank you, Adelle. Thanks so much for having me.

Adelle Onyango:

Now let’s jump into Satta Sheriff.

Satta Sheriff, it’s so great to have you on the podcast and to meet you.

Satta Sheriff:

Thank you so much. I’m really excited to be here.

Adelle Onyango:

What are some of the experiences that you hold dear to you from that moment that you saw how you could have an impact on your community in Liberia?

Satta Sheriff:

I spent a couple of years in the Georgian Parliament before I became a speaker. So the way the Georgian’s Parliament works is that is like a normal parliament. So, the Liberian government system is modeled after the United States because of our entire history. So, we have like a national parliament where we have the House of Representatives and we have the Senate as well. So, by the time I got elected as national speaker after the national elections, I was the first female for a couple of years. And then I had the opportunity, I had to move to go to the Capitol because that’s where the speaker have to reside, so it meant I had to teach my high school. I had an office at the Ministry of Gender. But just because our office was in the government, we were still protesting against the government. And that was how it happened.

So, then the parliament really helped to build my foundations in activism. We were challenging the same people who were supervising us. Like I said, we would do protests at the police station if something was wrong. If we sent letters to them, they are not listening, we will go there. And if every country in Africa could have something that allows children to learn to go, how to participate in national conversations and speak up for their rights, it will be really nice. And I think it’s one of the best gift you can give for children as well.

Adelle Onyango:

I’m completely there with you, and especially since education also allows you to see possibilities for yourself that you couldn’t see before. All of a sudden, you’re like, “Wait, so I can be president? I can be in parliament." And these are not things that you even thought were possible for you as a young girl. And so I’m there with you.

Satta Sheriff:

Some people will argue and be like, oh, too much education will make, like you and I get married, and I have the children, you won’t… I think that’s a choice for a lot of women. They get to decide what they want. You can choose, like I’m going to get all this education, and I want to have my children so that they too can have some of the opportunities so that we can continue this legacy, the African legacy and everything. So, I feel like education is the beginning of it all. And education comes in different forms. There are women like my mom who did not go to school, but they had a huge influence on who we’ve become. And so also recognizing that some of them, who did not sit in like the formal classroom, also holds so much power. And because there were things that they were able to learn and because of that form of education, they were able to pass something farther down to us as well.

So, education comes in so many form, and I think it’s important that every woman and a girl have access to one.

Adelle Onyango:

Something else that I don’t think very many people get, especially when we’re championing for women’s rights, be it we want them to be safe, we want women to have financial power, we want dignity even, a lot of times you get pushback because it’s seen as a threat. Just as you said, like, oh, now you’re not going to want to get married, you’re not going to want to have kids, that’s just like one side of the thread. What people never seem to get is that when you ensure that women and girls have these things that we’re championing for, it positively impacts everybody. It even positively impacts economies. It’s like a win-win for everyone. Have you had situations where you’ve seen that tangibly happen? You work to champion the rights of girls, the rights of women, and you’ve seen the positive impact even beyond the individual women and girls.

Satta Sheriff:

Yes, definitely. In 2020, during the heat of COVID, I was in school doing my undergraduate in the U.S. One thing about me, despite being away from home, I feel like that’s where my calling is. So, that’s where I’m doing a lot of my work. So, I’m still very engaged. So, during COVID, there was a lot of cases of domestic SGB, sexual domestic violent cases, rape and all of that because there was lockdown. People were in isolation and all of that. And there were reports from the UN and other institutions saying that if people are together, it’s common sense. If people are together, even if, like me, as someone is in the same place over and over, people start giving people side eye, and all that.

And so domestic violence, there were going to be reports. But when the government of Liberia was listing the essential institutions that should continue running during the lockdown, the Ministry of Gender, Children and Social Protection was not listed as an essential institution. What it meant was cases of sexual domestic violence was not important technically because then how do you report these cases? If the social workers and are working, if the women are children protection session at the police station, all of their staff will have to, because those are the issues they had to deal with. When I heard the news or read the list and everything, I decided to read an article, it was from Page Africa about that, expressing my concern that the Ministry of Gender is an essential institution. And just expressing like the normal concern that there were going to be issues around domestic violence. And there are already issues.

There were reports on the radio. So, I wasn’t just talking because I was just like a loud student. No. I saw the minister saw the article. She countered the ad. I don’t know. She thought it was like some kind of fight. If I say something, she says something. So the thing about the news, people, they carry the news. And so, like before you know it, we receive a case from one of the counties about, then it was it was a two-year-old. There was a case of a seven-month-old baby, and there was a case of a two-year-old that was brutally raped. And the razor blade was used on her. So, it was so graphic, like the moment you describe, like everyone in the country, there were conversations. And that was when the government have already listed, you know, the Ministry of Gender, the institution that should be dealing with the case has no essentials.

And the minister trying to defend the government. And so then other people started talking too, you know, so it wasn’t just me now that was being defiant or like trying to call out the government. And before you know it, that grew into something bigger. There was another case that came out again. So, the young people decided, no, enough is enough. A couple of my other friends, we decided to organize a protest, a three days national protest. Because of that, we founded at the Affiliation of Women and Children Rights Advocates in the country. And so what it did was it was like a conglomeration of like youth groups, women groups and children groups.

The Children’s Parliament, My Institution, the National Youth and Children Advisory Board, a couple of other institutions, we decided to come together and say enough is enough. In fact, we just did not want the Ministry of Gender to be open this time around. We said we wanted the president to declare rape as a national emergency, and so that escalated. Other people too saw the need. They said, “Yes, yes, yes.” For three days, my part of the work was writing all the… because I’m away. and my friends are mounting the pressure and everything, so for three days, the young people decided to organize a peaceful protest. So, protests were happening across the 15 counties. Because we already have this project, we already have friends in the counties for children’s parliament. That network already existed. And so, because of that three days protest, of course, some arrests happened. The police were policing, doing the things they shouldn’t do at some point. But the international media, a couple for the people, the had just joined as well. And they invited us to a national SGBV, sexual gender-based violence conference.

And by the end of the conference, the president of Liberia declared rape as a national emergency. He initially pledged 2 million USD to the fight against rape. That was not all. For the first time, they established the National Sex Offenders list, simply because we saw something the government did not list the Ministry of Gender as an essential institution, called the alarm, said we want it to be national emergency. It was not just impacting rape victims. Now, it escalated to a level where the government started taking action beyond what we were demanding. And up to now, the fight against rape is still in the national budget. There are still conversations.

Although we haven’t seen all the change in the world, but I do believe that in that was the beginning of something, and that conversation is continuing. And I want to encourage other young people when you see something wrong, no matter how small it look, no matter how far away you are from home, just be constructive, do your research, and speak up. There are people who are going to join you, and, in fact, they are going to champion that cause more than you. So, sometimes you’ve got to take the first step. It might seem scary. You might be arrested or caught as a troublemaker or say, “Oh, this person [inaudible 00:50:19]." We’re all Africans, and sometimes the elders don’t want you to speak.

But you have to try. You have to say something. Something will lead to something, and something lead to something.

Adelle Onyango:

That is so incredible. And it takes a spark to start a fire. And really, honestly, if you are listening and there is something that you’ve seen that is actually not right, that’s happening, even if you’re scared, speak up. Chances are there’s many other people watching who also want to have that same impact that you have, and that’s just such a wonderful example of how it just takes one person to be courageous enough and the impact will be felt across different communities. And so, when you look at Africa’s future, and I keep telling people, yes, it feels like there’s so much that’s happening right now that is frustrating and makes me angry, obviously in Kenya, we’re having our protests again, really led by Kenyan youth who are just so inspiring. But at the same time, in the middle of that frustration, I’m also like, this is such a wonderful time to be an African and to be an African woman.

I can’t let go of that excitement and the hope as well. What are you most hopeful and excited for when we look towards the future?

Satta Sheriff:

This generation of Africans, they know what they want. A lot of us, we are tired of being labeled as people who don’t know anything, ee don’t know how to speak English and all that. We are tired of being negatively portrayed on Google as people who are beggars and savages and all that. What I see is that this generation of Africans that are getting educated, whether some of our education is coming from the West or back home or wherever we are learning from, the thing is we want things to change for the better. When I listen to some young Africans, I’m just so inspired and it’s because we want better, you know what I mean? And it comes from what is from the educational system back home? What is from like human rights violation? What is from our government? People are demanding change. Young people are not just sitting like crossing their legs.

We are the ones holding the government accountable. We are the ones saying that, “Oh, look, gone are those days when things were happening as usual. This time around, what do you have in the budget for education? What do you have in a budget for young people?" I mean, there are issues in the youth community and all that, but that is just a part of the whole. There is a whole bigger picture. And I do think that this is going to spill over. This is going to become something big. And I do think this is going to lead to the united Africa that some of our forefathers believe. Because there will come a time, let me tell you, I am hope that one day, I don’t know how I sound, but I’m hopeful that one day the Africans will travel across the continent, we’ll not have visa restrictions, we’ll not have like colonial borders to restrict us anymore.

There will be unity, and we will see the beauty in our skin color, in our hair, in everything about us. We’ll appreciate the clothes we wear and everything. That we will not allow other people to define who we are, but the essence of us will come from where we come from because that’s who we are as a people. We are diverse. We are beautiful no matter our skin color, no matter how we speak, we respect each other, and that alone will form the kind of African that will not just go to the table to beg for it, but will bring our ideas and everything that we are. For me, that’s how I am. And I’m to note that other young Africans that are out there that are just getting educated, that are reading every day to build up their minds. They are not trying to embrace what we stand for.

That will challenge our leaders, but also love them enough to hold them accountable, and to also want to maintain some of our values. Because we can want all the change, but if we do not love where we come from, our roots, it’s easier for someone to come and just try to erase us. So for me, I have hope, I have faith in this generation and the want to come before us.

Adelle Onyango:

And you know what? Like, even as you’re talking, I’m just feeling that energy and I’m receiving it, and I hope everybody listening-

Satta Sheriff:

Our food, our music, let me tell you, it’s incredible. One day, they are going to see the beauty of it all.

Adelle Onyango:

Thank you so much for being on the podcast.

Satta Sheriff:

Thank you so much, too, as well for hosting me.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Adelle, thank you so much for a great and really important episode. And I must say, this episode contains one of my favorite lines from this entire series, when Graça Machel said she does not like the phrase “empowering girls.” They’re already powerful. “It’s not us,” she said, “who gives them power or voice. They have the power. What they need is space.”

Adelle Onyango:

Wasn’t that something, Mark? I absolutely resonated with that. Graça is so powerful. And that point about not empowering girls is a powerful reset, if you ask me. And I think it also came up through my conversation with Françoise because she really pushed us to reimagine how we tell stories about African women. And I think they both reminded us that African women already have agency, already have power. What we need to do is center their voices, invest in their leadership, and just make sure the stories being told are filtered through external biases, which I think is what we’re doing on this show.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

So, Adelle, I’m keenly interested in your personal perspective on many of the issues raised in this episode. You are a pioneering podcaster and media entrepreneur, and have made a career using your platforms to support African women. As someone who was already deeply invested in this topic, what solution have you heard that most resonated with you here?

Adelle Onyango:

I think it’s solution and a challenge, right? That really resonated deeply with me. It’s like the acknowledgment that in order to push the needle in the next 30 years, we have to focus on movement building, on intentionally changing our mindset on how we value women, and doing all of this in a very sustainable, strategic way. And I feel like the metaphor that kept coming up was of a relay race. Right? And that really stayed with me. Each generation of African women is passing the torch and ensuring that it’s never dropped. So, that image really stayed with me. It captures the moment of both urgency and hope, and then challenged me to be like, I’ve taken on the baton. What am I doing for the next generation of African women?

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Adelle, thank you again for another great episode in this series. I love this episode.

Adelle Onyango:

Oh, me too, Mark. And if you love this one, the next episode is going to be incredible because we really look at how do we ensure that, as we’re focusing on Africa’s future, that Africans remain healthy enough to see that future?

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Well, I’m looking forward to it. Thank you, Adelle.

Adelle Onyango:

Thanks, Mark.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Thank you for listening to The Future of Africa — a special series on Global Dispatches, produced in partnership with the African Union, The Elders, and the United Nations Foundation. I’m Mark Leon Goldberg, the host and founder of Global Dispatches. This series is hosted by Adelle Onyango. It is edited and mixed by Levi Sharpe. You can find all episodes in this series and access episode transcripts at globaldispatches.org.

Education in Africa must do more than keep up — it must leap ahead. Vimbai Masiyiwa champions entrepreneurship education that sparks job creation, while Minister Serigne Mbaye Thiam draws lessons from reforming Senegal’s school system for a digital future. Tina Muparadzi links skills development directly to economic transformation, making the case for public–private partnerships that align learning with labor market needs.

This conversation digs into how digital literacy, innovative financing, and gender equality can work together to equip Africa’s next generation. It’s a blueprint for education that prepares students for the future of work and leadership.

Guests

• Minister Serigne Mbaye Thiam, Global Partnership for Education High-Level Envoy and Advisor for Education and former Minister of Education of Senegal

• Ms. Tina Muparadzi, Executive Director for the Education and Transitions programming platform at Mastercard Foundation’s Education, Learning & Youth Livelihood Team

• Vimbai Masiyiwa, Entrepreneur & CEO of Batoka Africa

Background Materials

• Educating Girls Generates Economic Transformation In Africa, Mastercard Foundation

• Why Africa Urgently Requires Transformation of its Education Systems, Brookings

• Education Multiplies Possibility: Young People's Call for Action, Global Partnership for Education

The episode is freely available across all podcast listening platforms. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure sign up for our newsletter to get each new episode and transcripts delivered straight to your inbox.

Subscribe now

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When people don’t trust their institutions, the social fabric of a society is weakened.

But that “trust deficit” can — and must — be closed.

In this episode of our Future of Africa series, we explore innovative and practical approaches to enhancing trust and cooperation between people and their institutions -- from grassroots communities to global multilateral forums. Featuring Samson Itodo, a renowned advocate for electoral integrity and youth participation in Nigeria; Joseph Asunka, CEO of Afrobarometer; Chernor Bah, Minister of Information and Civic Education from Sierra Leone; and Chimdi Neliaku, a member of the African Union’s Panel of the Future and Special Assistant to the Hon. Speaker, House of Representatives of Nigeria on Interparliamentary Affairs and Public Relations, this conversation showcases positive pathways to inclusive governance.

Drawing on inspiring personal journeys, Samson shares insights from mobilizing young voters in Nigeria’s democratic processes; Chernor brings decades of advocacy experience as a youth leader who successfully integrated young voices into high-level peace, reconciliation, and education campaigns—now working from within government to broaden civic engagement and transparency in Sierra Leone; Chimdi reflects on empowering African youth within AU initiatives, showing how the next generation positively shapes governance; and Joseph brings years of public opinion research to explain the drivers of this trust deficit. Together, they highlight how inclusive leadership and effective citizen-government dialogue foster stronger trust, accountability, and intergenerational cooperation.

Effective governance depends on mutual trust—between citizens, governments, institutions, and international organizations. This episode explains how that can be achieved.

• Samson Itodo represents dynamic young leadership in civil society – he has organized young voters and driven campaigns like “Not Too Young to Run,” giving him on-the-ground perspective on citizens’ democratic aspirations and frustrations.

• Joseph Asunka offers a data-centric perspective, drawing from Afrobarometer’s extensive public opinion research across Africa. His expertise in governance, accountability, and citizen engagement sheds light on the continent’s internal dynamics influencing its external relations.

• Chernor Bah brings unique insights from both grassroots advocacy and government leadership, having led global youth initiatives, co-founded the A World at School campaign, and now as Sierra Leone’s Minister of Information and Civic Education, actively broadening civic engagement and strengthening trust in government.

• Chimdi Neliaku represents the young communities and grassroots viewpoint – a young changemaker experienced with the Global Shapers Community and AU’s youth initiatives, advocating for the next generation to have a seat at the table.

The episode is freely available across all podcast listening platforms. Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure sign up for our newsletter to get each new episode and transcripts delivered straight to your inbox.

Subscribe now

Transcript edited for clarity. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those of the speakers alone.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Welcome to The Future of Africa — a special series on Global Dispatches. I am Mark Leon Goldberg, the host and founder of Global Dispatches. And in several episodes over the coming weeks, we will bring you in-depth conversations designed to explore Africa’s future in the context of today’s challenges and opportunities. This series is produced in partnership with the African Union, The Elders, and the United Nations Foundation, and is hosted by the Kenyan journalist, Adelle Onyango.

I am truly thrilled to bring you this special project of Global Dispatches. We have some amazing guests in this episode and throughout the series. Enjoy!

Adelle Onyango:

Welcome to the Future of Africa Podcast. I’m your host, Adelle Onyango, and this is a show where we explore the bold ideas and leaders shaping Africa’s place in the world. Now, effective governance depends on something deeper than just policies. It hinges on trust. Trust between citizens and governments, between institutions and the people they serve. So, in this episode, we explore how to rebuild and strengthen that trust from grassroots communities to multilateral platforms, using transparency, civic engagement, and inclusive leadership.

Joining me are four dynamic voices across generations and sectors. First is Samson Itodo, the Executive Director of Yiaga Africa, and he is a leading advocate for youth political participation, and founder of the very famous and impactful Not Too Young to Run campaign.

Samson Itodo:

And while you need is that anger and that energy, harness them, and then transform that into the power that they need to get the change that they want.

Adelle Onyango:

We’re also going to be joined by Joseph Asunka, the CEO of Afrobarometer. And they offer powerful insights from public opinion data on how citizens view governance across the continent.

Joseph Asunka:

That myth has been busted for a long time now that Africans are not just interested in the bread and butter issues. They want their government to be accountable.

Adelle Onyango:

Min. Chernor Bah is also going to be joining us, the Minister of Information and Civic Education in Sierra Leone. He brings a unique perspective from both grassroots advocacy and national leadership.

Chernor Bah:

It is the job of us who hold power to adapt for them and not expect them to adapt for us. That’s the problem.

Adelle Onyango:

Last but not least, we’re going to be joined by Chimdi Neliaku, who’s a member of the Africa Union’s Panel of the Future and Special Assistant to the Honorable Speaker of Nigeria’s House of Representatives on Inter-Parliamentary Affairs and Public Relations. She’s representing youth voices at the highest levels of policy dialogue.

Chimdi Neliaku:

I fundamentally believe that no generation can achieve the Africa of our dreams or the world of our dreams, the Nigeria of our dreams alone. It must be intergenerational collaboration and core leadership.

Adelle Onyango:

So let’s get into it. Samson, thank you so much for making time to be on the podcast with me today.

Samson Itodo:

Well, thanks, Adelle.

Adelle Onyango:

I want us to dive into, because I’m so interested to know more about Not Too Young to Run, just from the name, it really captures our feelings right now, even in Kenya, about getting more young people involved in running for office. So maybe we can unpack that campaign first so that everybody knows what it was about.

Samson Itodo:

So, when you think about the Not too Young to Run campaign, it was just a campaign driven by young people who were just tired of the status quo. It’s a status quo of a political process, a political system that celebrates mediocrity and not meritocracy. A political system that is dominated by old and expired politicians who don’t have public interest at heart. A political system where every politician who is going into election thinks that the only way they can secure electoral victory is if they manipulate elections.

And, lastly, it’s just a political system that wasn’t delivering on the promise of democracy. And the old people were just frustrated. You know, often young people are told they are the leaders of tomorrow, not the leaders of today, the leaders of the future. But this same young people have what it takes to serve politicians when they actually are in office. And so young people wanted to challenge the status quo and get involved in politics. And one of the impediments at that point was the legal frameworks. So, in Nigeria, prior to 2018, you needed to be 40 to run for president. You needed to be 35 to run for Senate or be a member of Parliament at the national level. And it make sense that citizens were enjoying partial franchise. So, on one hand, you say when you’re 18, you have the mental capacity to determine which political party and which candidate is best suited to represent your interests.

And making that decision requires a lot of cognitive qualities. And so, on one hand, you say at 18 you can vote, but on the other hand, you say you have to wait 22 years to run. That was really injustice. And so they thought to organize young people to push for the amendment of Nigeria’s constitution. And those young people who transformed our constitution from the streets with their phones, with engaging and all the generation that cared about generational equity, got Nigeria National Assembly and the states to amend the Constitution to reduce the age for running for office, and currently the entry age is 25.

So, at 25, you can run to be a member of parliament. And all of this was just driven by the Not Too Young to Run campaign.

Adelle Onyango:

What are some of the parallels and insights that you learned when it comes to youth mobilization and really getting African youth involved in matters democracy, in matters governance?

Samson Itodo:

First, it’s understanding that young people are not a monolithic group, that there are different types of young people. And these different types of young people have different needs. They have different interests. They’ve got different language. But of course, they are connecting futures. And one of them is that they are young, they’re energetic, they have creativity and innovation, and while you need is that anger and that energy, harness them, and then transformed that into the power that they need to get the change that they want. So, that’s one. The second is digital activism. I dare say that social media is the most powerful tool that young people have, but even much more powerful is just the numbers that young people have. So, when you look at digital activism, the Not Too Young to Run was a ten year struggle. It wasn’t a two-year struggle even though the campaign itself was launched in 2016.

But it took us 10 years to achieve this outcome. And what was the difference between the previous efforts and the effort in 2016? Well, social media. Ability to use social media and the hashtag to galvanize and put pressure on political elite is one sort of parallels that I see. And something that also in terms of converged that I see across board. The third is resilience and consistency. This whole protest, the Reject Finance Bill protest started, as you know, I think, in June of 2024.

Adelle Onyango:

Yes.

Samson Itodo:

One year down the line, Gen Zs are still on the street because they haven’t gotten answers. It’s the same thing with the Not Too Young to Run. Started in 2007. There were two attempts, it failed, but we kept on pushing. And that’s what democracy is about. Democracy isn’t an event. It’s a journey. You have to keep pushing. You have to keep knocking on those doors until those doors are open. There’s something I need to add is this power of building alliances. You’re able to be resilient when you build alliances with unconventional actors. And it’s what I see actually played out in the Gen Z’s protest, but also what played out in the Not Too Young to Run because building alliances, it builds strategic capacity to stay the course.

Adelle Onyango:

Yes. What do you think the governments need to adapt when dealing with the younger generations so that the younger generation have an increased trust in the government?

Samson Itodo:

I think, first, we’re having this conversation because there’s a collapse of leadership across the continent. And this collapse, the blame cannot be put on young people. And I think that’s the first thing we need to understand. Because often, when people talk about social tension, talk about issues within the continent, they always point accusing fingers at young people. And for heaven’s sake, to a large extent, young people are not the ones who are responsible for unconstitutional changes of governments across the continent. Young people are not the ones responsible for these dictators that you have in the region. I think our ruling political elites need to appreciate that. The second, they need to admit that they have failed in delivering on their promise.

And that is why citizens don’t trust the state. Because it’s simple, you say during elections you would deliver quality healthcare. You get into office and all you are doing is increasing taxes to subject the people to economic hardship. It doesn’t match. What citizens and young people want is they want a government that cares and a government that listens to them. And so you ask me what government needs to do — first, you need to listen to young people. You need to talk with young people are not talk at young people because this generation of young people you’re dealing with, they’re generation that will not take no for an answer. They’re a generation that are here to renegotiate the social compact between state and society.

And so there have to be mechanisms that facilitate inclusive governance. The second is government need to respond when citizens ask questions of accountability. And I see situations where it only takes civic activism to get political leaders to negotiate with young people. And lastly, you need to respect human rights. When you think about the whole concept of rights and political participation, we are a democracy because there are rights that need to be respected. If it’s a territorial government, then you can say goodbye to human rights. And that’s what’s happening in Mali, where the former prime minister is currently being intimidated under detention for expressing his view on social media.

That is unacceptable. You don’t build trust by suppressing and oppressing your people. You build trust by creating a level playing field and open space where citizens can express their rights. That is what distinguishes democracy from other forms of government. And until our states recognized this, you’re going to continue to see broken trust that would lead to disengagement from the state, and then put the question of democratic legitimacy of political elites into jeopardy.

Adelle Onyango:

Do you have any thoughts around civil society or even international partners? What do they need to do more of to strengthen accountability, which is really at the core of building that trust?

Samson Itodo:

I think civil society needs to first rethink and reimagine its identity. And it’s whether it wants to continue to be viewed as elements or agents of the West. And, secondly, it needs to rethink its identity within the framework that it exists, first, to serve as an interlocutor between the state and citizens. It does not mean that being an interlocutor, you take the place of citizens. It simply means you facilitate better engagement between citizens and the state, and step back and allow the state to engage directly with citizens. Because often we’ve seen situations where the preferences of civil society is projected as the demands of citizens. And that disconnect has led to the delegitimization of that space because there’s a crisis of legitimacy that civil society faces despite all the great and fantastic work that civil society has done over the last three decades.

I think the second thing that civil society needs to do more, it needs to focus on mass mobilization because we’re losing touch with the people that we seek to represent. And so, constant engagement with the citizens is critical. And mobilizing citizens and supporting citizens. One of the things that Gen Zs are challenging established traditional organizations is we don’t trust you well enough to negotiate on our behalf. We want to do the negotiation ourselves because there’s the NGOnization of the space, and NGOs have become bureaucrats, even more bureaucratic than what you call traditional bureaucrats. So, how do we break that? I think the other thing civil society needs to do more is to stand in solidarity with each other. There’s a lot of fragmentation within the civil society space. And all that does it create cracks within the movement and allow for political capture of the space.

So, those are the things that I think civil society needs an internal reflection. But more importantly, this ad hoc engagement in advancing human rights is something we need to stop. The whole funding landscape has been distorted as a result of either the shrinking funding space. And so it’s the time for civil society to reimagine itself. Become mass-based, mass driven, but also try to look for innovative ways of new revenue models. That, depending on the West 100% for survival, it’s not what’s going to sustain this journey of reclaiming the state from authoritarians or protecting our democracy.

Adelle Onyango:

I wonder, as we close, what about international partners? Because I think rethinking even the financing model for a lot of civil society means collaboration amongst the organizations, but it means rethinking the relationships with international partners. So, what do you think needs to change there?

Samson Itodo:

Power dynamics need to change. I think that civil society needs to set the agenda and listen to people. This is not a time where international organizations will dictate to local organizations what should be the messaging, what should be the statics that they employ. No, I think they require the humility to listen to those organizations. And that’s where solidarity actually comes from. I’ve been part of a project on strength and solidarity, and we think about solidarity differently. And the first principle of solidarity is to defer to the people who are on the frontlines, and not dictate or assume what the solution is. And so that form of solidarity is what we require for the international organizations. Defer to the leadership of those who are on the front lines and not dictate to them.

Secondly, is to continue to amplify the concerns and the demands of those groups. And these young people, that’s another form of solidarity that these groups actually, and these movements require, and it’s amplifying their cases and amplifying their needs. Thirdly, I would say international organizations also need pressure. They can put pressure on established international organizations like the UN, like the African Union, you know, to uphold some of the commitments that nations have made to regional instruments. Yes, we are in a rapidly changing global world. In view of the multiple polarities that we’re dealing with, I wouldn’t advise that, as Africans, we should look to the West 100% because our liberation as Africans lies with us. We have the power and what it takes. But we need to cultivate global partnerships and alliances.

But it’s not one that subjugate us and make us the lesser partners, but one that recognizes that we are on the same pedestal, and, as Africans, we bring value to the table. Because, in the final analysis, every region needs Africa, and Africa needs every other region. But it has to be based on certain principles, and one of them is mutual respect.

Adelle Onyango:

Thank you so much, Samson. Like that was such a wealth of knowledge that you’ve shared.

Samson Itodo:

Oh, thanks. The pleasure is mine.

Adelle Onyango:

Now, let’s get into how to ensure, on a policy level, we make sure more young Africans have access to running for public office. Helping us do that is Joseph Asunka.

Thank you so much for making time to be with us today.

Joseph Asunka:

Thanks so much, Adelle, for having me. It’s a great pleasure to meet you.

Adelle Onyango:

Why do you think it’s important for us to understand Africans perceptions when it comes to governance, when it comes to democracy, when it comes to leadership? Why do you feel like this is something integral as we look to put Africa on the global stage?

Joseph Asunka:

Why it is important, in Afrobarometer, if you look at our history, we started in 1999. And for people who have followed African democratic governance trajectory will know that the late 1980s and early 1990s was when Africa started to become more and more democratic. We had elections happening across the continent, and the multi-party electoral competition was becoming the norm. So at the time, the folks who founded Afrobarometer, there were three professors who founded Afrobarometer in 1998, around 1998. The principal objective was to make sure that as Africa become more and more democratic, if we want the governance to be about the people, for the people, and by the people, they should not be confined to early election years to have their voices heard.

When African citizens elect a government, they should, in between elections, be able to voice their experiences, their opinions, and share those with governments. So, government, first, are aware of what their priorities are so that when you are developing policies, you take into account what your citizens are prioritizing. Second, you also want governments to know how citizens are experiencing the implementation of public policies on the continent. So, if a government adopts a policy and they start to implement, how the citizens experience that policy implementation? And in what ways do they see, or how do they see the performance of their elected leaders in serving their interests?

So, we collect a range of things. First, what they experience. So, for example, do you have electricity? And we get to know whether people have electricity or they have health care, or they can get that doctor when they go to the health clinic. So we provide them the opportunity to give that feedback to their governments. The second component being asking people to assess the performance of their leaders in power so that leaders know how the citizens are assessing their performance. So, this is what we’ve been doing over the past 25 years, and it is critical to have this data because it provides government with feedback of what citizens are experiencing and feeling.

It gives them feedback in terms of how their citizens view them. And it also provides them useful information about where their priorities are. So, when they are developing policies, they take into account those priorities.

Adelle Onyango:

On a personal level, Joseph, are there some findings in research that really stand out for you? Maybe you found them interesting, or they affirmed something you always thought about?

Joseph Asunka:

So, on the governance front, on governance and democracy, we started Afrobarometer in 1999. The thought was that Africans would not care about human rights and democracy. All they care about is food on their table, so they care about economic issues and not the governance and political issues. So, human rights would not be an issue, freedoms is not an issue. As long as people can get to eat, they’ll be five. And that myth has been busted for a long time now that Africans are not just interested in the bread and butter issues. They want their government to be accountable. And this came to light, especially between 2010 and 2015, whenever we asked African citizens, do you want a government that can deliver economic benefits even if it is not accountable?

Or you want an accountable government, even if it is not able to deliver the economic goods effectively? It used to be the case that more and more Africans wanted the economic benefits. They were like they want their government to deliver on the economic front. But from 2015 onwards, it flipped. And now, increasingly, more and more Africans say they prefer a government that is accountable to them than one that just gives them the economic benefits. And that has been a surprising result. It has stayed the same. It has increased since then, and is now a majority view across the continent.

Adelle Onyango:

Based on the research that you’ve been doing at Afrobarometer, what key insights on public opinion do you think African governments need to use to strengthen their credibility?

Joseph Asunka:

So, the data that we have has shown generally that there are a number of core things that when they happen, people lose confidence in their elected leaders. And, unfortunately, it also goes to affect their confidence in democracy. The top issue is views about corruption. When people feel that there’s corruption in government, and interestingly, what we find is that especially corruption at the local government level, it really damages people’s confidence in government.

So, when you ask about trust in elected leaders, whenever they see incidents of corruption at the local level in particular, it completely erodes their trust in governments. And we think this is just because people experience government more intimately at the local level. The only way governments can get out of this is to really deliver a government that is of integrity and clean governance. Or at least at the very minimum, be very open and transparent about what you do so that citizens know. So, it’s not like a black box, they have no idea what is happening in government.

The second component in terms of the erosion of trust is usually about elections and electoral outcomes. When elections are conducted in a peaceful, transparent manner, you see that the trust in public institutions goes up very significantly. And the opposite happens when people feel that elections are not of good quality, there was violence, and that the outcome is not really what people voted for. Then it just deflates people, and it becomes like the source for erosion of trust in government leaders, but also public institutions. And so, the quality of elections and the integrity of government are the key things that erodes public trust in government. And if you now think about it, what can governments do? Delivering good-quality elections is the beginning.

Like, if you get the elections right, it does two things — First, people have confidence in the institutions, but it also gives people the confidence that they can hold their elected leaders accountable through the ballot box.

Adelle Onyango:

If we move on to the youth and African youth, and you will hear the conversation around youth bulge in Africa, but I’m not too confident that our governments really grasp what that means. But even away from our governments, we have to ensure that the African youth, and not just as statistic we bring up as the youth bulge, but that their true reflections on how they want to be involved in their views, what are their pain points, what are some of the solutions they’re thinking of, how can we make sure that is captured in forums like the UN or forums like the AU that maybe a lot of African youth struggle to feel included in?

Joseph Asunka:

When we talk about the youth bulge, there are two ways you can think about it. It can become a dividend, and it can be a time bomb. It depends on what governments do to harness the benefits. If you and the youth bulge to be a dividend, you need to be very proactive and practical in thinking about the ways in which you can harness the energies and talent of young people for the advancement of their country. But if you don’t do certain things, this can be a really explosive situation that will just blow in government’s face at the point where you just can’t control anything again. And, of course, we’ve seen some elements of that happening in certain countries, where young people just get frustrated with the system and they would just blow things up.

And that also creates unfortunate opportunities for, say, terrorist groups if they want to recruit young people. And that’s the only source of income, it’s like, what is there to lose it, and so on. But on the hopeful side, I do think that there are many ways that governments can harness the youth bulge because African youth are very talented and are very creative when it comes to technology, the banking sector, thinking about the arts. These are young people who are really creative. They just want the opportunity to be able to put their talent to use. But, over time, our data does show, “When we ask people, what is the most important issue you want government to address?” Unemployment always pop as the top issue. And people are not just looking for government to create jobs for them. They want there to be the policy space that allows private sector and entrepreneurship to thrive.

So, because of that, we do think that just creating the enabling environment, that allows young people to use their talent to contribute to the economy would be the biggest way to get young people to harness the benefits of this youth bulge that we are talking about. But the traditional institutions of governments do not give them the room to operate. Take, for example, political parties. It’s really hard for young people to break into the barriers that are being set up by the older generation in terms of active and impactful participation in the political processes, the internal affairs of a political party. The proportion of Africans who say they are close to a political party has been declining over the years, and it is a very low number now, but more so for young people.

Barely 9% of young people feel close to a political party across the continent. And so the question is, how do we make it accessible? Or are there alternative structures that can allow for young people to participate? And I think that’s where governments need to work more on.

Adelle Onyango:

As we close, do you have any parting shots that you feel like you haven’t brought out?

Joseph Asunka:

Credibility at the global stage is important. Sometimes we see government leaders from outside the continent, when they come to the continent, they try to position their messages on what Africans are saying. Drawing on Afrobarometer, I remember in the previous regime of the United States under Joe Biden, when they were developing the Africa strategy, it was actually launched at the University of Pretoria. And the folks that actually presented their strategy at the University of Pretoria made reference to what African citizens are saying and thinking about democracy and why the U.S. is working in that space. So, if African governments will do one thing well to position themselves and leverage this data when they are having conversations about what African priorities are.

For example, if the African Union is going to adopt, let’s say, a theme for the year, what theme should we adopt that is consistent with African citizens’ priorities? I think sometimes the leaders just meet and make a decision about the theme for the year without any consideration of what’s citizen priorities. And I think sometimes they miss the point by doing that. And so, I hope that African governments will use this more and more. I mean, recent examples have included Prime Minister of Senegal, they take our data where young people say they prefer entrepreneurship, and he was launching a program to promote entrepreneurship in the Senegal. And he cited that data as a reason why the government is actually investing in a position of creating space for the private sector to thrive.

The same thing happened in Ghana, where the president said, “Well, from the data that Afrobarometer has, more and more Ghanaians are losing faith in democracy.” So his government has to do something to restore people’s faith and trust in democracy and leaders. And I think that’s the one thing I want to pass out there, that if African leaders want to really consolidate their credibility wherever they are, leaning on what your citizen views are, what their priorities are is so important in the process. It’s one piece and it’s an important piece in your messaging at the global stage.

Adelle Onyango:

Thank you so much, Joseph.

Joseph Asunka:

Thanks so much for this and for having me.

Adelle Onyango:

Speaking of effects of having young people in office, let’s head over to Sierra Leone and listen to Min. Chernor Bah, giving us insights into being part of grassroot communities, pushing for change, and now being part of the government.

Adelle Onyango:

Min. Bah, thank you for making time to be with us today.

Min. Chernor Bah:

Thank you. It’s wonderful to be with you.

Adelle Onyango:

You have a unique placement because you’ve been doing incredible work from the age of 15 outside of government, and now you are inside the government as a minister. How have your views on building trust and civic engagement changed, if at all, now that you’re in government?

Min. Chernor Bah:

First of all, I think what I’m doing in the government is a continuation of what I’ve always been doing, which is stick to make society better — better outcomes for everybody. A good process produces good outcomes. If people feel like they’re involved, they’re connected, they trust the system. They understand what is happening. They are all invested in the outcome. So, good outcome is not necessarily a very specific value. It’s not that, oh, everybody gets this. But I know what went into this process. So, what has changed for me, you said, you know, I’ve been an activist all my life. I still think of myself as an activist in government. I think it’s a useful perspective to have in government.

I’m an agitator, I’m an activist. What we seek to do is to break the door open, is to seek reforms, is to change things, is to call things out when they are not working, and to be unreasonable. That’s important. Activists are unreasonable because when I’m in government, I want to see where government has multiple priorities. The reason this is not being done is because we have to balance this and that. An activist says, “Oh, this is important. This must be done.” And I think that’s the balance that you have to hold. And so when I was outside of government, I understood that, again, my job was to hold governments accountable. Also, my own form of activism was also to focus on outcomes. What do I really want? My intention is not to shame the president.

My intention is to get the president to pass the legislation that I seek. My intention is not necessarily to bring this government down. There are some government that need to be brought down, by the way, but in context of some of the work that I was doing, but my intention was a I want a policy that will make sure we have a progressive youth policy in Sierra Leone that will end FGM, that will remove the ban on pregnant girls. So, to do that, I understood that there always have to be different touch points. We take the government to courts, we organize protest, we march in the streets, but we also have to engage them. People in the inside need to see why the people in the outside are feeling the pressure. Because the other thing that power does to you is isolate you from the reality.

You’re not feeling the effects of everything that everybody else is feeling. You know you’re not following in the queue, you’re not feeling all the pinch of what people are feeling. That’s just the reality. It’s not a question of economics, because for me personally, I was in a frankly better economic position than being in government. But still, power will insulate you. It insulates you from so many different things. So that’s why you need that connection so you feel that urgency, you feel how people are feeling, and you’re making decisions not just to keep yourself in power, but to solve the problems that people want you to solve.

Adelle Onyango:

What have you found most effective in that opening up process in your role as minister?

Min. Chernor Bah:

The way I approach transparency and openness in government is from a position and assumption that people are reasonable. People will understand if you are honest and open with them. When I became a minister, and my job is actually, primary part of my job is to build public trust. That was my commitment when I went to Parliament is that I will use my background as a civil society activist, as somebody who has been calling for government to change, to be that change, to build trust, to build an open government. And I started with the most simple thing. The primary language we speak in Sierra Leone is Creole. It’s the common language spoken and understood by about 90% of the population. English is spoken and understood by less than 20% of the population. Yet the business of government has always been conducted in English. No campaigns were conducted in English. When people campaigned, they campaigned in Creole, and when they governed, they govern in English. It was not rocket science to see the disparity there that you cannot campaign in one language and you go running another.

It’s as if that I’m going to speak to your heart, you know the old saying that when you want to speak to people’s hearts, you speak their language when I’m seeking your votes, but as soon as I get it, I’m going to speak in this elite language that most of you don’t understand. And that’s my way of keeping you out of the governance process. And so if I don’t even understand what you’re saying, if you’re speaking over my head, then everything just looks complicated. So, one of the first things we did, we said the business of public engagement with our citizens, now, from a governance perspective, will be done in a language that everybody understands.

And it was shocking because we also have a colonial mentality where English is supposed to be the language of aspiration and language of governance. But it was also the language of exclusion. So, we pushed and said, “No, we’re going to do everything in Creole.” And just that, people are feeling like, whoa, they can engage, they can ask questions, they can understand what we’re saying. We’ve got to speak to them in a way that’s still simple. That’s number one. Two is to bring the principles to talk to people, and do it consistently over a period of time.

So, just every week, we’re going to do a public engagement. You start by giving them as much information as possible, and they’re going to be like, you know what? We understand. This is it. This is the reality. But people in government, in my mind at least, have always started from thinking that, oh, you can trust the citizen with this information. You know, there’s many American movies where it’s like, you don’t know the truth. You don’t want the truth. A few good men. You can’t handle the truth. But I come from opposite of that, thinking people can actually handle the truth. And you got to trust them with that truth. And there’s going to be some inconveniences in that process.

There are going to always also be idiots. There are going to be people that are wild, who kind of take advantage of it. But I think the mass of people are reasonable, and that’s where governance happens. And you find that mass that you can work with.

Adelle Onyango:

So, how do you balance pushing for transparency with the political realities of that landscape, as you’ve mentioned, of power, of the dynamics that come with that?

Min. Chernor Bah:

But I’ve always said that power is an intoxicant, and it does get to your head, and it’s capable of getting you drunk. Look, remove one day from opening your own door, walking into a room and finding a place to seats, of joining the queue with everybody else at the airports and everything. And so, the next day, now you have an armed guard that’s in front of you. You’re in the motorcades here and there when the president is traveling. If you’re lucky, you’re with him on flights. You get to the airports, now there’s somebody waiting for you. You don’t have a line.

It can get into your head. So, it’s important to table that. And I think, for me, because I’d also been such a critic of power, and a lot of my friends also had been in power for a while, I went in knowing that I am not immune to the intoxication of power, and that’s also important. And so then you ask yourself, okay, so what are my guardrails? How am I going to make sure that I stay true to who I want to be, to the values that I have? And I think it’s the most simple things. It’s the most simple things. And one is the friends that you keep and the friends that you’ve had all your life, and making, being intentional about having that same relationship and openness and candor with the friends that you have with your family. Being rooted in my family and the values that I have with my family, you know, coming home every day, making sure I’m around for dinner almost 100% of the time as long as I’m in Sierra Leone, putting my kids to bed.

It keeps you grounded in an extraordinary way, engaging them and understanding and then doing the things that you used to do even before you got immersed into the power. So, those things keep you human, keep your feet on the ground in that respect, and then making space for reflection, constant reflection. You know, I come from a tradition of peace studies, and I studied at University of Notre Dame, where the Kroc Institute’s value of peace studies is the idea of a practitioner reflectioner, and that constantly you have to like make space to think, okay, what did I do this week? What could I have done different? How am I pursuing the values that I set myself up for? And reaffirming those values. So, in my team, publicly when I speak, whatever I do, I hold myself to a very different set of standards.

And those are the standards that I want to be held by. So, it’s a complex way of trying to balance that and hold that and reflecting and writing and thinking and engaging and having people that are mentors, peer mentors that hold you accountable for you to really, I think, have the antidote to the intoxicants that is power.

Adelle Onyango:

So, how do you think governments can adapt to the expectations of the young people that they serve?

Min. Chernor Bah:

I’d like to push back on the exceptionalism of every generation of young people. I’ve read enough of history to realize that each generation thought the young generation that was coming through is so wild and so unreasonable and so crazy. I feel like you can go back, each generation thought the same about the young generation that was coming up. And so it’s really important perspective to hold that it is just the natural way of things that our reality in this generation, and I think of myself, I’m just 40 and young in government, and we’re radical in government. And yet the tools that we have, the ways that we operate, the ways that we use those tools are very different from the way that the different generation that’s coming up, generation of my kids, or people are ten years younger than me will have.

And so I think having that perspective that this is the way that history works, that the young generation is going to come through this door, they’re going to come with their own tools, their own set of values, and that it is the job of us who hold power to adapt for them and not expect them to adapt for us. That’s the problem. And this is the same problem, by the way, in youth advocacy. Like, I’ve been a youth activist, I’ve been knocking on UN Security Council, I’ve been trying to change the system my whole life. And I know one of the challenges often is that the people in the room with power think, yeah, you want to come into this room, just adapt, put on the suits, have the degrees, dress like us, tick all the boxes and come into the room.

And, actually, young people are saying, “Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, we want to change that room. We want to change the idea of a room. We want to remove that table. I don’t want to sit on the table. I want to upend this institution.” And that’s a tension. It’s a real tension. And so, I think what governance is, in my mind at least, and what I try to say to my colleagues, where do you find the middle? Because you don’t want to scare the colleagues in thinking that, “Oh, everything’s going to just change and then our lives are going to be different.” Because that’s also not going to necessarily lead to good outcomes. It’s not necessarily guaranteed good outcomes. So, it’s to say, “But, hey, the world is changing. You got to adapt or you are going to be left behind.” That change is coming. What do you manage of that change? What aspect of that do you facilitate? And how do you adapt?

And, as young people too, because here’s another uncomfortable truth, young people do get old. I’m here. I was a young person just yesterday, I think, and I’m getting a bit older. So, they also adapt, and they bring in enough of the radicalism and the passion to, hopefully, you find that balance and you merge it.

Adelle Onyango:

I think just to wrap up our conversation, because you’ve given such tangible points, in the mindset shift that needs to happen within government, tangible steps that government can take, but maybe if we open it up to civil society, global partners when it comes to making sure that democracy takes systems really do work for citizens, work for the youth, do you feel like there are some practical steps that civil society and maybe global partners can take as well?

Min. Chernor Bah:

I think the first thing I would say is to understand that we’re all partners, and we’re all seeking to make the system or make society work better, and so find ways to see the good in each other. And that’s very difficult from starting from a position of, oh, these people are evil, these people are bad. I’ve learned. I’ve been on both sides. I know there are good and bad people on each side. And I’ve seen the worst of civil society. I’ve seen the best of civil society, the worst of governments and the best of governments. And also international institutions. I’ve worked for the UN as well. So, understand that nobody has a monopoly of the truth, nobody has a monopoly of what is righteous.

And I think that’s one. But in terms of like practical steps, I think, be willing to listen, be willing to engage. Create platforms for engagement. This idea of reasonable conversations, and not BS people, not conversations where you’re just kind of reinforce what you want to hear, but different platforms. And I say listen to different groups in the way that they want to be heard. Some people don’t want to be heard by being on a podcast. Some people want to be heard by singing music. And so, you should listen to the lyrics of the song. Some people want to be act. Some people want to be heard by protest. You’ve got to be willing to listen to how people want to be heard.

And listening is not just hearing. It’s also incorporating that. And again, listening to government, listening to the challenges that we face while we’re in government, having to balance the different things that we need to balance. And be propositional with different ideas and steps that we can all take to make things better.

Adelle Onyango:

Thank you for making time to be on the show with us and just being so open.

Min. Chernor Bah:

Thank you.

Adelle Onyango:

Last but not least, let’s head over to Nigeria to talk to Chimdi Neliaku, and really understand the power of having young voices at the highest levels of policy dialogue.

Thank you so much for making time to be on the podcast with us, Chimdi.

Chimdi Neliaku:

Thanks for having me, Adelle.

Adelle Onyango:

I want us to dig into your grassroots work and work as a member of the Panel of the Future in how the government can specifically, with the young Africans, get them in and support them in contributing to transparent and accountable governance. What are those tangible steps that have worked outside of, let’s say, the regional town halls? But how can we specifically get African youth in?

Chimdi Neliaku:

The first is really just listening and engaging. That is super important because you can talk at the people, you can share this is what we want to do, but that doesn’t make as much effort or as much impact, I must say, as when you are listening to the people and when you are engaging with the people — two separate things. The second part, I think, is training and mentorship. I fundamentally believe that no generation can achieve the Africa of our dreams or the world of our dreams, the Nigeria of our dreams alone. It must be intergenerational collaboration and core leadership. I recognize that the older generation has wisdom, has insights that young people can benefit from.

Young people on our paths have a lot of vibrancy, a lot of ideas, innovation, and just amazing things that we bring to the table. So, the best of both worlds is having that meeting in the middle and bringing the best of both worlds into government. That means that we should then have intentional efforts of governments to train young people to lead. That’s something that we need to increasingly see across the continent. If we don’t intentionally start grooming young people to lead, then we are preparing to have a generation of leaders that will fail the country and will fail the continent.

The final thing I would say is to then create access and give opportunities to showcase. That does maybe two or three things. One, if you train people, you have to give them the opportunity to showcase what they’ve learned. I always say that leadership is an action word. You don’t lead by just knowing the principles in your head. You lead by leading. You learn to lead by leading. So, young people have to have the opportunity to be in spaces where they can showcase, they can learn, they can improve, they can hone their leadership skills. Two, when these opportunities are given to young people, we start to create a new narrative around youth leadership. I can’t speak for all countries in Africa, but I will say that in Nigeria, we have had a few examples of youth leaders that have not been so positive.

And that then becomes the example to say, “Well, when we give XYZ lead the example, what did he do with it? What did she do with it?” What I always say, if you give two people, for instance, out of a hundred people, an opportunity and they fail, that’s not such a bad statistic. If you give 20 or you give 10 or you give 30 out of 100, I’m sure the numbers wouldn’t be the same, you know? So, there will always be bad eggs, whether it’s in the older generation, whether it’s in the younger generation, whether it’s in women, whether it’s in persons with disability. But when we widen the scope and we give more opportunities and we streamline the process for giving these opportunities, then we will see better results and we will see young people that will deliver. So, we really need to give more young people that opportunity to lead and to be part of the national development process.

Adelle Onyango:

Based on the work that you’re doing and the experience you’re having with what you’re doing in Nigeria, what are these actionable steps that perhaps governments can take, or even international partners and regional partners, to strengthen accountability? Because I feel like without accountability, hoping that there can be trust is just a hope. It’ll never come.

Chimdi Neliaku:

I feel that government has to, one, be proactive. That is the word. Government has to start. Government has to initiate the engagement. Government has to initiate the dissemination of information. It shouldn’t be the people saying, “What happened here?” It should be that government has already put that information out there and it is accurate. Because we have seen at times where information will be put out, and then Nigerians and, again, young people would call that out and say, “No, hold on. That’s not very accurate.” And that could cause more issues around trust. But then I will say that there could be situations where there’s some sort of a mistake or a gap that leads to the wrong information going out. But then the next line of action is then, how do we address that situation?

So, the governments that do take responsibility and say, “Yes, you’re right, we’re sorry. This was a gap on our part. We take responsibility for this.” And they put out again the correct thing, that helps to manage the issue of trust. But where you find the government standing on a lie or standing on something that is not accurate, then it further deepens the trust deficit. That’s what I will say. And then I’ll say, overall, when they see it this way, the government will be able to find creative ways to deepen trust, whether it’s through involving technology, more technology in what we’re doing, for instance, in the National Assembly, we’re starting on eParliament system, where Nigerians would access or parliamentary records, would be able to engage with their lawmakers on this technology, will be able to, even in real time, share with their parliamentarians on the floor of the National Assembly what their views are on debates taking place in Parliament.

When you understand where people are coming from, and you engage with them and understand and ask them what their challenges are, you can then creatively think of the solutions that can fix the relationship. So, government and people have to have their own sort of joint therapy session, and then work out ways to address the issues.

Adelle Onyango:

If you could talk to young Africans who are listening to you right now on the podcast, in terms of pushing for a better Africa, what is the one thing you will tell them to start off with in relation to connecting with, engaging with their governments? What’s the next smallest step young Africans can take? And I just threw that in there because I just feel there’s a lot of inspiration coming off when you’re speaking, and I would love that to hit home with the young Africans listening.

Chimdi Neliaku:

One, young people, don’t give up on Africa. Africa is destined for great things, and African youth will solve not just African problems, but global problems. The statistics are clear, the numbers are there. The resilience of Africans, it’s all there. We have all these things in our favor. You have to be blind to not see the fact that Africa is the future. And Africa, the future is here. Africa is destined to be the number one continent, I will put it that way. So, don’t give up. There’s a lot of work to be done, but I truly, truly encourage young people to not give up and to commit themselves to be partners in progress, not to tear down our countries, but to build. And we have a lot of conversations in Nigeria, and I’m sure, in other countries. In fact, we’ve termed it Japa. I’m sure you may have heard the Japa syndrome, where a lot of young people are leaving the country and going abroad because they’re in search of greener pastures.

And I’ve said that that may not be a terrible thing if the idea that these young Africans are going out with is that we’re going to learn, we are going to take up all these experiences and take up space to bring all that back home. If that is your goal, then I think that we’re on the right track. Because if you see all the other countries who’ve done it, China has done it, so many other countries have done it. They’ve gone out there and they’ve come back to build home. There is no place like home. And if young people, young Nigerians, and young Africans have that mentality that we must build home, just give Africa a few more years, we won’t recognize how amazing our continent will be.

Adelle Onyango:

Chimdi, thank you so much.

Chimdi Neliaku:

Thanks for having me, Adelle. I enjoyed the conversation.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Adelle, that was such a great series of conversations. So, I’m curious, as someone who has lived in Kenya, traveled extensively throughout the content, how have you experienced that trust deficit? Is it something that you feel? Does it impact your daily life in any way?

Adelle Onyango:

Mark, that trust deficit is so real. It’s like my companion through everything. And just to bring it home, in Kenya, last year, June 2024, I think the entire world saw that we were frustrated during the finance bill protests. So, young Kenyans flooded the streets. I went to the streets as well. And one of the main things we were amplifying our voices against is the moves by government. And these moves that work not in the best interests of Kenyans actually fuels the trust deficit that was already in existence. And even today, you hear it in everyday conversations. So, communities see funds announced for schools, for hospitals, but when you visit these areas, sometimes the projects are there, but they’re unfinished or they’re non-existent. So, the gap between what’s promised and what’s delivered just feeds mistrust daily.

And on a personal level, just day-to-day, for me to be able to be a tax-compliant businesswoman in Kenya, I have to pay my taxes. But whenever I do, I’m always questioning, will that money actually improve services? I don’t see the benefit around me, which then makes me lose a lot of trust in the government. So, the trust deficit is real, not just in Kenya, but across the continent.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

You know, it’s interesting, in your answer just now, you really reflected a lot of the perspectives that I heard in this conversation, which is that, yes, governments and institutions urgently need to take steps to reverse the widening deficit. But ordinary individuals as well have a role to play. I mean, you mentioned the protests in Kenya last year. Particularly, it seems like youth have a role to play.

Adelle Onyango:

Yes. One thing that came out in this episode, which is a very humbling moment, a lot of times we’re constantly pointing the fingers, our fingers at the government. I mean, I just did that a few seconds ago. But we were really reminded that, as citizens, we have a role to play. When Samson was talking about the Not Too Young to Run campaign, I mean, it even showed how young people can organize, can use digital activism, and really force real change. Then you have Afrobarometer. If we didn’t have a role to play, then they wouldn’t need to look at data that looks at how citizens play a role in holding governments accountable.

So, yes, institutions must lead in rebuilding trust, but the citizens, and really on the continent, it’s the youth. The youth have enormous powers. So, through advocacy, through voting. In Kenya, we’re gearing up for elections in 2027. And through consistent civic engagement. We have a role to play in pushing the system forward.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Well, Adelle, again, such a great episode. Thank you so much. I really am enjoying this series tremendously.

Adelle Onyango:

Me too, Mark. Me too. And I’m looking forward to the next episode, where we focus on educating the next generation.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Me too. Thank you, Adelle, and thank you all for listening.

Thank you for listening to The Future of Africa — a special series on Global Dispatches, produced in partnership with the African Union, The Elders, and the United Nations Foundation. I’m Mark Leon Goldberg, the host and founder of Global Dispatches. This series is hosted by Adelle Onyango. It is edited and mixed by Levi Sharpe. You can find all episodes in this series and access episode transcripts at globaldispatches.org.

Making promises on financing for development is the easy part. Following through on them is hard. In this episode of our special Future of Africa series, we take a deep dive into how international agreements on financing for development can make a meaningful difference in local communities.

Ambassador Chola Milambo speaks frankly about turning global financing commitments into tangible benefits for African communities. Chidi Okpala highlights the role of innovative private-sector partnerships, while Tumi Mkhizi Malebo offers a youth perspective on making finance work for the next generation and Nabila Ageule emphasizes the particularly important role of young women. Together, they map out what it takes to bridge the gap between conference promises and action on the ground, from transparency and inclusive planning to youth-led monitoring of how funds are actually spent.

If you’ve ever wondered why big financial agreements rarely reach the people they’re meant to serve, this episode offers both the diagnosis and the solution.

Subscribe now

Guests

• Ambassador Dr. Chola Milambo, Zambia’s Permanent Representative to the United Nations

• Chidi Okpala, Executive Director of Group Integration and Strategy, Heirs Holdings

• Nabila Aguele, Chief Executive, Nigeria at the Malala Fund

• Tumi Mkhize Malebo, United Nations Foundation Partnerships Next Generation Fellow

Background Materials

• Africa: Unlocking Africa's Future - The Imperative of Domestic Resource Mobilization, All Africa

• Foresight Africa: Top Priorities of the Continent 2025-2030, Brookings Institution

• Our Future Agenda Quarterly Rewriting the Rules of Finance, Our Future Agenda

Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every episode in this series is freely available. And be sure sign up for our newsletter to get each new episode and transcripts delivered straight to your inbox. This is a conversation you won’t want to miss—because the future of Africa is the future of the world.

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Transcript edited for clarity

The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those of the guests and hosts, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast partners.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Welcome to The Future of Africa — a special series on Global Dispatches. I am Mark Leon Goldberg, the host and founder of Global Dispatches. And in several episodes over the coming weeks, we will bring you in-depth conversations designed to explore Africa’s future in the context of today’s challenges and opportunities. This series is produced in partnership with the African Union, The Elders, and the United Nations Foundation, and is hosted by the Kenyan journalist, Adelle Onyango.

I am truly thrilled to bring you this special project of Global Dispatches. We have some amazing guests in this episode and throughout the series. Enjoy!

Adelle Onyango:

Welcome to The Future of Africa Podcast. I’m your host, Adelle Onyango. And this is the show where we explore the bold ideas and leaders shaping Africa’s place in the world. Now, after the recent Financing for Development Summit, FfD4, the world is watching. Will the bold promises made to support Africa’s sustainable growth actually be delivered? Well, in this episode, we dig into what meaningful and equitable financial partnerships look like beyond the high-level declarations.

And we also talk about how we can ensure that financing commitments become real, measurable outcomes. Joining me are four leaders from the worlds of diplomacy, finance, and youth advocacy. First is Ambassador Dr. Chola Milambo, Zambia’s Permanent Representative to the United Nations, who will be bringing a front-row view into multilayered negotiations on global financing reforms.

Amb. Dr. Chola Milambo:

So, we’re really standing at the doorstep of a very special era, and I think we need to first acknowledge that.

Adelle Onyango:

We’re also going to be joined by Mr. Chidi Okpala, who’s the Executive Director for Group Integration and Strategy at Heirs Holdings, with decades of experience across fintech, financial services, and private sector innovation.

Mr. Chidi Okpala:

You know, one of the unique things about us in Africa is that we have a large and growing youth population. When you don’t engage these youths productively, it becomes a problem because they can be highly combustible.

Adelle Onyango:

We’re also going to be joined by Ms. Nabila Aguele, who’s the Chief Executive, Nigeria, at the Malala Fund, and she’s going to be offering sharp insights on how global financing impacts young women and youth across the continent.

Ms. Nabila Aguele:

The most effective financing and partnership models are those that put resources, that put money, funding, power directly in the hands of those who know the challenges best.

Adelle Onyango:

Last, but not least, we’re also going to be joined by Tumi Mkhize Malebo, who is a UN Foundation Fellow on Partnerships. Her background in finance and policy gives her a future-facing view on what African development should be driven by.

Tumi Mkhize Malebo:

Illicit financial flows drain Africa of an estimated $89 billion a year.

Adelle Onyango:

So let’s get into it. A good place to start is to hear exactly what happened at the Financing for Development Summit, FfD4. So, let’s hear from Amb. Milambo.

Amb. Dr. Chola Milambo, thank you for making time to be with us.

Amb. Dr. Chola Milambo:

Thank you so much. It’s such a pleasure to be here.

Adelle Onyango:

If we’re talking about FfD4. I know this is a summit that was quite instrumental, so maybe you can unpack that for us. Before we get into what stood out for you, what is so important about this Financing for Development Summit?

Amb. Dr. Chola Milambo:

The backdrop to FfD4 is what is called the Pact of the Future. Last year, all 193 member states endorsed what it’s called the Pact of the Future, a document that basically says this is how we shall move going forward, both at the UN and elsewhere. We commit ourselves to multilateral cooperation. And so the Pact of the Future provided a background for FfD4. And the reason why you’re speaking to this gentleman is because Zambia was one of the four core facilitators of the negotiation process, alongside Norway, Nepal, and Mexico. Those four countries, we came together. We were the ones receiving all the information and submissions from member states. We are the ones who drafted the document and led the negotiations of this document that was adopted in Spain that you referred to.

So, that is the context. And it’s important to point out that the negotiations were not easy. As you can imagine, to agree on a document which is 28, 29 pages long, line by line, word by word, among 193 member states is not an easy feat. At the same time, you can put a layer of geopolitics on top of that cake, and you can try and just imagine what type of situation you’re in. So, we were so pleased that we were able to reach agreement on a consensus basis. This is a consensus document, meaning that all member states came forward to endorse it. Of course, one country withdrew. But, by and large, the document was adopted by consensus.

And so it reflects a very important moment for multilateralism. We do understand that this is a document on finance and economics, but I think there’s a higher calling that it spoke to, the fact that in a world that seems like it’s disjointed and there’s doubt around the very institutions that protect multilateralism, we can come together and agree on something. And so I take my hat off to those who are in the financial complex, who at least showed the world that at least we can agree on development financing.

Adelle Onyango:

Sometimes a lot can get lost in translation when you have these documents. So, to the person listening, what key outcomes should we be looking out for or what were some significant agreements that came out?

Amb. Dr. Chola Milambo:

The first thing is that, of course, like I said, is that there was a care in endorsement of multilateralism. I think that’s the high-level context of it, the umbrella. But when you go now into the documents and look for, okay, find what was actually agreed, you see, at least we can characterize them in three broad areas. The first one was the commitment towards the investments into the SDGs, meaning that how do you make the envelope bigger? There’s the issue of the gap. And, by the way, looking at where we started when it came to the negotiations, as core facilitators, we made it very clear that we’re very interested in seeing a document that will generate scale, generate innovation, and generate resilience. I think we need a financial system that is actually able to deliver what it should to allow private sector to innovate through various instruments, even government, to the public sector, whether it’s through green bonds, or things of that nature, or contingent related bonds.

And then also you want this financial system that if it’s hit by a shock, we can build back up. Now, based on that, there are three areas. Of course, the first one is investing in the SDGs. More broadly, we start from the base, which is domestic resource mobilization, right? Ultimately, that is the most significant part from which you build your house. The amount of resources you can generate within your own country. And so, if you look at the document, there are commitments in there to enhance domestic resource mobilization, including addressing illicit financial flows, stolen assets, things of that nature. Also, there’s a commitment to increase the amount of development financing, ODA, official development financing that goes toward countries that want to raise that tax effort, which is tax to GDP ratio — the amount of revenue that you raise out of your economy.

Then there’s the elephant in the room, which is the issue of the debts. The debt crisis that many countries are facing now. As a matter of fact, the number of countries that are facing debt distress, or at least a high debt situation, are higher now than they were in 2015. And so we have this cycle that even though we’ve gone through the heavy process of debt forgiveness, we have found ourselves back in a situation where we have more debt. And so, this document speaks to the issues around debt sustainability mechanisms to increase the voice of borrowing countries.

To be actually more specific, we see that there’s a push towards debt transparency, which is a key part of debt management — who is borrowing what? And then there’s also the issue of the debt infrastructure. Who are the players? How much voice to the folks in the global south have? And debt service cost in many countries is actually exceeding the amount of money that the countries spend on health and education. We have a big challenge to do with that issue. So, first one is investment. The second one is debt. Third one is the reform of the international financial architecture, which basically says, “Look, we think that distribution of power in the global institutions need to reflect the realities of the day.” And so it speaks to the issue of voice representation in the global institutions.

How do you ensure that they’re much more effective and meet the needs of developing countries? Their core mandate. And so, in there, you’ll see the document pull out issues regarding how should the SDRs be used, standard drawing rights, which is a currency held by the multilateral institution. So, it sounds a bit complex, but basically it’s got to do with how do we ensure that all our voices I heard. If an institution is truly global, then all voices have to be heard.

Adelle Onyango:

Now, I want to dig into your diplomatic experience at the UN, and maybe if you could unpack if there are any opportunities to advance reforms for a more equitable global financing. And, obviously, we are a bit biased. So, equitable when we’re talking about Africa.

Amb. Dr. Chola Milambo:

It’s important to understand how the financial landscape works. Right? You cannot expect to make progress in any game if you don’t know the rules, right?

Adelle Onyango:

Yes.

Amb. Dr. Chola Milambo:

And this is where the issue of domestic resource mobilization come first. That, in order for you to raise enough financing for your development, you first have to ensure that you can raise enough financing at home, which also means that you should minimize leakages out of your own system. So, enhancing tax compliance, addressing tax evasion and avoidance is key. Addressing the issues around good governance to avoid stolen assets is a big issue that can help address that. Now, those are domestic matters, but they relate to global matters because the global environment has to be conducive for you to ensure you don’t have leakages in the first place. And should you have leakages, you should be able to have avenues from which you can withdraw, retrieve funds lost.

At the UN, there are several processes going on. Right now, we actually have what you call the International Tax Convention, Framework Convention that is ongoing here. It is the commitment that was agreed in much difficulty in FfD3, but only came to fruition in the last year of FfD3. And we have discussions on this Framework Convention on tax, which basically tries to establish a legal framework within which countries can collaborate on international tax matters. And it’s interesting because we’re having this discussion at the time that the tectonic plates are shifting on what you call international cooperation, right? So, traditionally, traditional donors are looking at their budgets and seeing, how do we realign our budgets? And, to some extent, the amount of official development assistance, which other people know as aid, is in decline.

And that affects how countries who are recipient countries have to adjust. Now, to be fair, many of the countries who are recipient countries were already aware that the landscape is changing, and they were slowly trying to make adjustments. The issue here is the speed at which official development assistance has declined is a shock to the system. And so, there are processes going on at the UN, and it’s very important to keep them on track.

Adelle Onyango:

So, what would a good debt deal look like for an African country going forward? How should we be approaching this?

Amb. Dr. Chola Milambo:

Well, the first thing is that we should not give debt a bad name, right? Debt is functional. Debt can be very positive, can be used in development. What we need is prudent debt management. And prudent debt management has different components to it. The first is that do not raise the need for debt. Try and match your expenses with your income. That’s the first start. And then, should your budget not balance, then you defer to debt financing, whether it’s internal financing or external financing. And then, at the same time, you have to have clarity on how you want to use that debt. Debt must be used for capital expenses in my books — that’s the prudent thing to do — while you keep your current expenditures covered by current revenues. You’re marching the profiles. In this system, analysis has to be robust, and your overall debt management framework has to also be prudent. And then you stay within the limits.

Now, that is what should happen in theory. Should it be the case that you breached the key thresholds and now you start going into what you call a medium-term risk to high-risk, into default, that’s a whole different playbook. In that playbook, when you reach medium, you have to make efforts to try and bring back your system into play. If you reach high debt, then now you may begin to start to have the conversation around, how do we restructure? Should you start to restructure, then you have to look at the landscape again and say, “Okay, fine, what are my options?” Now, in the current scenario, if you are a low income country and you have an IMF program, you are eligible to apply for restructuring under the G20 Common Framework.

And that in itself has its own processes. But the point here is that prudent management is the key to debt sustainability, resilience to economy. And countries will have to determine whether they can withstand certain shocks to their economy without falling into debt situation. So, that’s the scenario at the domestic level, because the question was, what should we do about the issue of debt?

Adelle Onyango:

So, from your perspective, what are the steps that we should be following right now so that when we’re talking about African youth, they aren’t just consulted, which I don’t think enough of that is happening, but they are actually co-designing and benefiting from these global finance commitments?

Amb. Dr. Chola Milambo:

I don’t think there’s been any period prior where the voices and recognition of the potential of the youth has ever been recognized. So, we’re really standing at the doorstep of a very special era. And I think we need to first acknowledge that. We hear the cries from many youth for voice participation — Let’s not be consulted only, but we need to be involved in governance. But I think we need to pause and reflect on how far we have come as young people. And so having said that, the youth must identify those CSOs and think tanks that they can align with, the civil society organizations that speak to the issues of youth and join those voices, and then also provide inputs to those voices. Where possible, engage in the negotiations that take place.

That’s at the multilateral level. At a country level, as youths, you want to try and translate what you’re seeing at the global level, to network among youth inside the country and outside the country on the various developmental issues, and see how you can make a positive change for your country and community. I think that we have a lot of untapped skills and knowledge among the youth that if they can just come together around a common purpose, there’s a lot that can be actually achieved.

Adelle Onyango:

Looking ahead in a broader spectrum, what do you feel needs to happen now? We’re in the immediate aftermath of FfD4. What do we need to do now to ensure Africa-centered partnerships and financing mechanisms become the norm?

Amb. Dr. Chola Milambo:

I think we need to domesticate the FfD4 because the way that it seems now, the document is at risk of becoming this foreign document that was agreed and will be implemented somewhere, and somehow we’re going to benefit from it. Now, we need to do a mapping from the global to the domestic. Which component in here needs to be implemented? It was a consensus document, so all governments are committed to it. And so, the youth can look at the document say, “Okay, fine. How does this document apply to my community?” And then stick through the various avenues that you have, seek to engage with the relevant stakeholders to say, “Look, we want to have a follow-up discussion among ourselves on FfD4. What does it mean for me? What does it mean for my community? What does it mean for my country?”

Adelle Onyango:

I have to say thank you so much for the work that you do, and for making time to be with us on this podcast and have this very important conversation.

Amb. Dr. Chola Milambo:

Thank you so much.

Adelle Onyango:

Now, let’s get into the role private sector plays. Helping us do that is Mr. Chidi Okpala.

Thank you, Mr. Okpala, for making time to be on the podcast with us.

Mr. Chidi Okpala:

Thank you very much.

Adelle Onyango:

Let’s start with a bigger picture. From your perspective, what are some of the most urgent steps and partnerships that should happen right now to make sure the financial pledges that came out of FfD4 translate into real change, especially for young people on the continent?

Mr. Chidi Okpala:

Well, I think the first thing is the initiatives that these commitments are meant to back is about putting them to action immediately because time is of the essence. I don’t think in Africa we have all the time in the world. We should be a bit in a hurry because we have a lot of catching up to do. So, all of those initiatives, there is need for mobilization. Because it’s one thing to have funding, it’s another thing to have organization. But it’s important, the government is required to put those initiatives to play. One thing we’ve also noticed in terms of what has led to not the highest success rate in initiatives in the continent is because of the very weak governance structures around those initiatives. And so it’s critical that we have the right type of people around those initiatives, from the governance point of view, people that are experts, people that have done it, people that have a track record, people that are willing to commit their time and resources, which is very critical to see these initiatives through.

That’s one. Second is some of them are rather grand, but it’s always good to start small. You know, have concepts, test it, demonstrate it, make sure it’s working, then you can now scale it. These are some of the differences. And then, of course, the one is also making sure that people that make commitments honor them. Because again, some effort has to be committed in that regard to make sure that those that make those commitments actually honor them and honor them on a timely basis towards fulfillment of the delivery of these initiatives.

Adelle Onyango:

You’ve worked in what I think is the intersection of finance, fintech, and strategy for years. What new models or approaches do you see working best so that we can speed up this Africa-led development? Because, as you said, we don’t have the time.

Mr. Chidi Okpala:

The first thing is what has happened in Africa is we have left development only to government to drive, and that has been slow. The resources have actually not been optimally utilized. Even where there has been good intentions for them to percolate down for the ordinary man on the streets, the regular African youth to feel the impacts. One of the unique things about us in Africa is that we have a large and growing youth population. When you don’t engage this youth productively, it becomes a problem because they can be highly combustible. So, they can be a force for good or a force for bad. And you can’t allow them to be idol.

And so the model we’ve run up till now has been highly inefficient because we’ve left it in the hand of government. And that’s what led to the concept of Africapitalism that our chairman, Tony Elumelu, came up with, which is how can the private sector be at the forefront of driving that change, of driving real sustainable development? Obviously, in partnership with government. You cannot do it alone without government because government has a key role to play. The policy is only come from them. The laws, the regulations only come from them. But the private sector is a lot more dynamic. The public sector is more efficient because they have that entrepreneurial mindset and approach. And so, whatever they set their minds to do, they will certainly run it more efficiently. So I think the private sector has to step up.

There are quite a number of successful private sector enterprises and individuals in Africa. But they’ve just been focused on their business. They’ve said, “Look, anything development, they’ve left it to the government.” But I think those individuals, this is a time for them to stand up and be counted, not just the people that are famous and we know that are wealthy, but there are people that are not so famous, that are not so wealthy, but are doing well in the diverse areas that they play.

You don’t have to be involved in initiatives that as big as what Dangote is doing or Tony Elumelu is doing. They can be at the community level. It could be at the state level. They could be at a national level. They could be at the pan-Africa level. They could even be from a sectorial point of view, depending on where the competence of that organization is or that particular individual is. So, I think there is just way too much to be done and there is scope for everybody. I think Africa’s development, youth development is everybody’s business in Africa. And so there is a role for everybody, whether you are an individual, whether you are an organization, even the churches, even the Islamic organizations, the religious bodies, there’s a role for everybody to play in terms of coming up with those initiatives that can help in this drive.

When you look at the sectors, technology is one of the areas we’ve celebrated, which is really nice because the youth population in Africa, we’re actually born in what I call the digital era. So, they are digital natives. And so one are that gets very excited is technology. And so quite a few things have actually happened in that area, but a lot more can actually be done. But there are also other areas where technology can be leveraged to drive transformation. Agriculture is a very good example. There’s so much that can be done in that area, leveraging technology. Healthcare. Almost every sector of technology can be leveraged to drive this transformation, to also make sure the services or the provisions of those sectors can touch the lives of everyday Africa as we progress. So, essentially, a private public sector partnership or collaboration can actually help to fast-track our development.

Adelle Onyango:

Just to unpack the area of the youth, so young Africans, when you look at global financing, how do you think young Africans can have a stronger voice in terms of shaping what these partnerships look like?

Mr. Chidi Okpala:

You know, one of the things about young Africans is that they’re quite exposed, they’re enlightened, thanks to social media, thanks to the internet. And so they have a lot to give, much more than anything. So, they need to be involved. That’s number one. And being involved cuts across so many areas. I think a lot more African youths need to be involved in politics. Thanks to the power of social media. You don’t need the sort of funds you needed 10, 15, 20 years ago to contest for elective positions. No. Social media is free, literally and relatively. And when they win those positions, they make sure that is stand out and not be like our fathers and grandfathers, the way they played politics. Because when you get into electoral positions and you are not different, then it begins to weaken the power and influence of the youth.

When they win and they stand out and they’re different, it becomes to spur a momentum. And so people even naturally start calling on them — okay, there’s a place and a sector that is not growing or it’s not being developed, and so can you step up and come and take over. They are the ones that can drive and transform. I think that’s one area. They should also be involved in policy. You don’t need to be actively in politics as well as in policy. Policy means advocacy. Okay? They need to speak up. They need to organize themselves in ways that are responsible and structured, and engage policy makers and engage people in government and drive specific agenda, and follow it through until they become laws or acts on regulation in respective countries. And I think the last one is around training.

I think people, even among themselves, there should be a deliberate effort to train and bring up others, share knowledge. That’s one of the beautiful things about the internet and social media. It’s not only to use it to be posted on Instagram and all of that, but it can be an extremely powerful tool to empower people, to educate and to enlighten. So, I would encourage the youth to leverage those platforms, to use them to develop others, to train others, so that people can build skills or develop skills in defined areas. And that way, they can be better, that way, there will be a lot more muscle and a lot more people are involved in driving the youth agenda in the continent.

Adelle Onyango:

Maybe as we wind up, we can start looking at the more hopeful partnerships that you’ve seen, be it public, private sector, partnerships that you have seen that is already making a difference for African communities.

Mr. Chidi Okpala:

I think a very good example is what we are doing in the Tony Elumelu Foundation. It’s a demonstration of the power of partnerships, which is a ten-year-old foundation, very widely known for its impact. More $100 million have already been granted to more than 24,000 youths across the continent. And these youths have generated more than $4.5 billion of revenue over the last year, created more than 1.5 million jobs, direct and indirect jobs, and more than 2 million households have actually been impacted. This is a classic case of where partnership and collaboration has actually resulted in tangible results that have impacted lives. And so it’s obviously, this is championed by Tony Elumelu himself, but the Foundation works with different partners.

There are private sector partners like the Ikea Foundation, the Ikea furniture group that you know, but there are also potential partners. There are a number of respective geographies where they’ve actually collaborated governments or where they’ve collaborated with United Nations organizations as an example. And one of the beauties is the significant number of female entrepreneurs that have actually touched. So, typically, if you look at the VC world, where they’re supporting entrepreneurs, it’s typically maybe 80% male entrepreneurs and 20% female. In this case, female are more than 40% actually, about 46%, which is quite encouraging.

Look no further, the TEF is a particular example of where partnerships has actually helped in driving an agenda consistently and driving real impact across the continent.

Adelle Onyango:

And so as we’re looking ahead, and, of course, this is right after FfD4, if you could bring it down to one thing, one thing that you believe needs to happen right now, so that we make sure that Africa-centered financing is the rule and not the exception, what would that one thing be?

Mr. Chidi Okpala:

I think it’s advocacy, quite frankly. The voice or the tone has to be raised in terms of bringing the youth agenda to do fore. A lot has been done, but I think there’s still much more to be done in terms of elevating or bringing to the forefront the need to take the issues of the African youth very, very seriously. Population is growing, and if we’re not able to get those youth engaged, if we’re not able to drive their development or position them to be the driver that can help us play catch-up with the rest of the world, then we will remain disadvantaged over next to three decades. I think the time is now.

Adelle Onyango:

Thank you so, so much for making time to be with us.

Mr. Chidi Okpala:

It’s a real pleasure. Thank you.

Adelle Onyango:

Let’s dig deeper into how global financing impacts young women and youth across Africa with Nabila Aguele.

Welcome to the podcast, Nabila. Thank you for making time for us.

Ms. Nabila Aguele:

Thank you so much.

Adelle Onyango:

You know, sometimes when you talk about financing, people immediately get scared to join the conversation because they think it’s only numbers. And we forget that this financing, the partnerships, actually touch lives. There are human beings behind all of these numbers, behind the funds and behind even the summits. And in your case, I know you’ve worked closely with young people, especially young women across policy, finance, and advocacy. So, from that experience, what kind of financing or partnership models really make a difference in the day-to-day lives of young women on the continent?

Ms. Nabila Aguele:

My position is that the most effective financing and partnership models are those that put resources, that put money, funding power directly in the hands of those who know the challenges best, those who are at grassroots level, at community level, and can really speak and act from a place of experience. That means putting money directly in the hands of the young women and men, the youth, putting money in the hands of local organizations. Organizations that are led and driven by dynamic young Africans, community leaders, and individuals themselves.

And what that means then is that in thinking about issues and solutions, they are looking through the lens of lived experience. They’re looking through the lens of realistic Africa narratives rather than sort of superimposed frameworks from elsewhere. And specifically to make financing work for girls, we need to look at a number of things. There’s no one answer. It’s going to be a suite of solutions and approaches. First and foremost, we need budgets and fiscal policy frameworks that protect girls, protect their right to education, their right to safety, their right to move freely.

So, even during debt crises, governments and donors must ring-fence and prioritize funds for public services that are gender sensitive, gender transformative, and that center the needs and the rights of girls. Not just because it is a moral imperative and not just because it’s the right thing to do, but especially as someone who comes to this work from the fiscal and budgeting and planning space, the data is clear — When you invest in young women, when you invest in young girls, whether it’s their economic empowerment, their education, their health, you are investing in the community, you are investing in better economic outcomes, improve GDP. You’re improving in better health outcomes.

So, I think really recognizing that we need budgets and accountability mechanisms that protect girls, protect their right to education, especially because education is such a catalytic investment, and that recognizing also that this is not just about the girls. It’s enough that it’s about them, but it is about us as a people, as a community. We need to fund local leaders. Youth and women-led organizations have the trust, they have the expertise, and they have the insight to respond quickly and effectively. And I think especially in a moment like now, where so much is shifting, there’s a lot of discourse around locally led solutions, restoring power to young people. What I would say is that we need to stop talking about it.

We need to stop pushing the narrative and move beyond words into action. There still is a tokenistic way in which funding is given to local organizations. There’s still this, kind of subtle, sometimes very overt narrative about, you know, are they trustworthy? Are they ready? We know, unequivocally, from our work that they are. They are, in fact, innovating in ways that governments and international organizations are following. And finally, I think, you know, we’re talking about funding here, so it’s really important to think about blending resources. We need to really be innovative, Africa-led solutions that combine public and private funding, especially for essential public services. And we need to get out of this cycle where candidly, too often, we’re depending on international organizations, foundations, development partners to drive public services and to implement. We need to treat their technical skills, their funding, their support as catalytic. And we need to drive change. And in driving that change, we need to center the voices of younger women.

Adelle Onyango:

Are there some examples of financing or projects that you have financed under the Malala Fund that show that this is important, that honor the expertise, put the money directly in the hands of these young people?

Ms. Nabila Aguele:

That is essentially exclusively our model. We are a fund. So, we grant make to local organizations across our focus countries. And three of our focus countries are in Africa —Nigeria, where I lead. But we also have active grants in Ethiopia and Tanzania. The distinction, though, in Nigeria, is that in addition to our grantmaking, which is exclusively to local organizations, primarily locals and led. So, we’re talking CSOs, nonprofits, social enterprises that are focused on driving policy change and policy action and shifting community mindset to ensure that more girls are able to access and complete secondary school. In Nigeria, we lead advocacy alongside our partners. So, it’s really about amplifying platforming, facilitating, and leveraging our expertise, our work, as well as that of our co-founders, Malala and Ziauddin Yousafzai,

So many specific examples — I’ll share a couple. One is in Adamawa State. So, Adamawa State is a state in the northeast of Nigeria. It’s one of the BAY states, as they’re called. And these are states that include Borno, Adamawa and Yobe. They’re categorized as BAY states because they’re very unique in terms of insecurity, the humanitarian crisis, etc. And so lots of challenges there in terms of out-of-school numbers, access to education, etc. And just recently, one of our partners that’s working in Adamawa State — they are called Center for Advocacy, Transparency and Accountability Initiative — they worked with the state government, so we’re talking of the governor and his commissioner of education, to launch the state’s first ever comprehensive education policy.

This specific policy is gender sensitive, gender responsive. It’s a milestone because it directly addresses gender disparities in education, and it promotes, for example, mentorship programs for girls. It specifically has provisions around creating safer school environments. It builds gender sensitive leadership in the sector. And it encourages active parental involvement. Another example I love to share, there’s an organization that we fund in Borno State, which is another northeastern state. It’s called Zenith of the Girl Child and Woman Initiative Support, ZEGCAWIS. And so, this is a young woman-founded organization.

Aishatu Kabu, the founder, founded this as a teenager following her family’s displacement in Borno State as part of Boko Haram. So, this organization leads on youth and women’s rights, promoting gender and youth inclusion. And also, one of the areas that they mainly lean into is pushing for menstrual hygiene policy in the state of Borno.

Adelle Onyango:

So, from your experience in the work that you do, how do you think young Africans, especially those who are not in the policy or the finance space, but these promises are going to impact them, right? How can they be better equipped to hold their governments accountable to delivering on those promises, or even the institutions and various partners accountable to?

Ms. Nabila Aguele:

Fundamentally, young people, young women want commitments that are honored, that are acted on, and are not just announced. We have so many communiques and commitments that come out not just from these global convenings, but even country level policies that are rolled out and beautifully polished and announced. We need for us to move beyond pronouncements and proclamations and to really lean into what we know is true.

Collaborative action, Africa-led for the continent, right? So, action that is Africa-led, governments leading, private sector, young people, young women’s voices honored, with other actors being catalytic and helping drive change, but not being the ones to decide the agenda and to decide what the solutions are. So, young people expect stable funding that can actually reach communities. And, really, it’s about essential services, particularly and especially during times of crisis.

When we speak to girls, they talk about very practical barriers that keep them out of school. They talk about the fact that there are no toilets, there’s no water facilities, there’s no access to menstrual hygiene products, to pads. They talk about not feeling safe on their journey to school. If you broaden that conversation to the families and communities, they talk about safety. They talk about keeping their children at home sometimes because of safety issues. And so, a lot of these things, the lack of a translation of commitments and promises into actions that are resourced and for which there is accountability is what our big issue is. I think so much of this is about power. Who holds it? Who sits at the table?

When we invite young people to the table, are we actually giving away? What are we doing? So, I think, for me, it’s so important for those of us that have a seat at the table or have had a seat at the table, or represent organizations like Malala Fund that grant us access to constantly understand that our role is to platform, to give up our seat, or to create pathways and avenues, and to amplify, and to give voice to these young people. Ideally, they should be in the room with us, but if they’re not, we need to center them and their wishes, and be messengers and champions for their perspectives.

Adelle Onyango:

You know, coming off of FfD4, what do you think needs to happen right now? If you could wave a wand and make it happen for Africa, what do you think needs to happen right now to change those promises into action on the continent?

Ms. Nabila Aguele:

There’s so much that needs to happen, but I think where I’d love to start is really, in the short term, we need to continue to push for reform to the G20 Common Framework so the it actually unlocks resources for public services, especially for girls education more broadly, but, of course, for health, and really ends this vicious cycle of debt-driven cuts to social spending. Part of our work, particularly at the global level, is advocacy that we call Debt Justice for Girls Education. In Nigeria, for example, Nigeria spends more on servicing debt than it does on education and health combined. And we’re talking at the federal budget, and it’s not a one-off.

This is true of many countries on the continent and beyond. And so recognizing that even with the best of intentions, even if we listen to girls and listen to young people and platform, and we come together, and government works alongside civil society and private sector and leverages international funds as catalytic, without addressing this unsustainable debt burden, even the best-intentioned governments are not well positioned to actually ensure that they are applying their domestic funds and even international funds, whether it’s loans, etc., to public services, including education.

So, for us, this is critical and it’s something that we continue to push. And we care that at country level, with continued push for increased education funding and better quality spend. Spending that is gender responsive, gender transformative, that reflects the needs and wants of young women of communities and where we have plans and budgets that actually speak to the issues we’re trying to solve for. In the long term, we need to really secure a global debt relief deal that requires investment in education, health care, and other public services, and pair that with a continued push towards domestic resource mobilization and prioritization around public services such as education.

At the same time, we really have to protect and expand local leadership by, as I’ve mentioned earlier, funding more community-based organizations that can act quickly and adapt to solutions. And the final thing I’ll say is that we really need to push for Africa-owned and driven solutions. And it means that we are accountable, we hold our governments accountable, that we leverage and center our thriving and growing youth population, who really know and understand what they’re up against and are part of the solution, and that we build solutions and related narratives that are for us and by us, and that speak to the realities on the continent.

Adelle Onyango:

As we look ahead, in ensuring that Africa-centered partnerships and financing models become the rule, not the exception, I really think step one is really what you just finished off with, it was like, how would we then normalize African-owned to begin with? But what are your thoughts on that? How do we ensure Africa-centered partnerships and financing models?

Ms. Nabila Aguele:

As somebody who has come to this work, girls’ education from the policy space, I can tell you that still so much policymaking and so much policy implementation and solution brokering is not rooted in the lived realities and concerns and challenges of the communities and individuals that we hope to serve. So, first and foremost, Africa-led solutions cannot come from, for example, here in Nigeria, Abuja is our capital. Decisions can’t be made at the capital without going into the states, the communities, and having those issues inform what we do or what government does from a policy perspective, and also what we, at Malala Fund, for example, prioritize and how we push for change.

That cannot be underscored because it’s still the exception rather than the rule. Beyond that, Africa-owned from, for example, a government perspective is about government-driven solutions that prioritize domestic resource mobilization. And so, in a moment such as now, where funding is constrained both domestically and globally, Africa-led solutions have to be those that prioritize social spending. So, investments in human capital, education, health, etc., but that also recognize that irrespective of how much money is unlocked, if we’re not spending it well, and if the private sector, for example, isn’t brought in or isn’t even given space to thrive, when I say private sector, I don’t mean just sort of the big wigs.

I mean, sort of, the SMEs really growing a private and business sector that is able to thrive and broker solutions with government stepping out of the way and really focusing on policymaking and implementation that is fit for purpose on candidly repairing the social compact between government and her citizens. And, again, this is about, what is the citizen’s voice? In what ways are there accountability mechanisms to ensure that gender responsive budgets, for example, translate into public services? And also, how are citizens invited in to monitor and also inform how policies evolve over time? So, those are just some light ideas. But trust — trust with citizens for government, trust with private sector trust even with international partners. And then also coming to the table with your own agenda and being ready to be accountable and act.

Adelle Onyango:

Thank you so much.

Ms. Nabila Aguele:

Thank you so much for this platform and for making it about people and about young people and young women, and girls especially. I really appreciate that.

Adelle Onyango:

To wrap up the conversation, let’s talk to Tumi, the UN Foundation Fellow in Partnerships.

Tumi, thank you for making time to be on the podcast with us.

Tumi Mkhize Malebo:

Thank you so much.

Adelle Onyango:

What do you think young Africans really expect from these global financial commitments that we see being declared at summits such as the FfD4?

Tumi Mkhize Malebo:

I think, especially since it is a very big issue on the continent, one of the biggest things that young Africans are expecting is greater accountability and transparency. People want to make sure that public funds are being used effectively and corruption in that regard is reduced. Another thing, especially with high unemployment in all the different countries, I think young Africans are expecting access to opportunities through better education, infrastructure, and job creation enabled by smart financing and investment. Also, young Africans are expecting inclusive decision making, where African youth have a voice in shaping these policies and these global financial systems.

Adelle Onyango:

So how do we get young Africans involved in shaping these partnerships?

Tumi Mkhize Malebo:

We often use it as a declaration, right? And that’s not just what we are. I find that we are more of an accountability layer. I think, in order to get the youth more involved, governments should find youth coalitions to run a public dashboard that pulls data from budget procurements and aid portals, give the youth a list of funded projects where they can visit sites, upload photos and coordinates, and check whether equipment exists and works. And then these findings can go to parliaments and audit institutions. This is when young people can see the contract insides and the leakages can drop.

Adelle Onyango:

Now, you’ve worked extensively around policy and directly with financial innovation. And so, I’m wondering, based on your experience, what policies or practices do you think could help build Africa’s economic resilience and still make sure that growth is inclusive?

Tumi Mkhize Malebo:

Things that bolster Africa’s economic resilience is investing in different sectors beyond just commodity, right? Going into manufacturing, tech, and green energy, which is bound to be a very, very big thing. And, again, also transparency. Because I think the continent grapples with a lot of illicit financial flows. The work that I did at the African-Innovation Program found that illicit financial flows drain Africa of an estimated $89 billion a year, roughly 3.7% of GDP. And this is close to what the continent gets in aid and foreign direct investment. And about two thirds come from commercial practices, like abusive transfer pricing, trade outflows, mis-invoicing and treaty shopping. So, if we create policies that enable greater transparency, that will be able to bolster Africa’s economic resilience because illicit financial flows, I think, is the biggest detriment to our continent.

Adelle Onyango:

Ridiculously high. It’s quite unacceptable. That’s definitely one step that we need to take seriously. But we had all of these huge promises come out FfD4, different conversations on debt pauses and debt relief, and where more funding is needed, and while all of that is really great, to have all of these member states agree on certain things, the big challenge is moving those commitments to action, right? And so, from where you sit, what do you think needs to happen immediately? Like, if you have a wand and just make one thing happen right now, to turn these promises into results for Africa, what would that one thing be?

Tumi Mkhize Malebo:

When we look at one of the promises that came from the FfD4 was a platform for action with more than 100 initiatives that countries can use now, from the tools to project preparation, one of the things that can be done immediately is to ensure African countries can easily access and adopt these 100 initiatives to local context. Because it’s easy to have like a plan, but sometimes I think because, you know, we’re all different, there are different cultures, different countries have different ways of doing things, that it’s imperative that it needs to be adopted to a local context. Another thing that can be done immediately is training national teams to use these debt sustainability tools and prepare bankable projects.

Adelle Onyango:

So, looking ahead, obviously, when we’re thinking about how can Africa take her place on the global stage, and how do we make sure the future of Africa, we know it’s bright, but how do we make sure that it’s felt and it’s a reality? One of the things that’s important is to have Africa-centered partnerships and financing mechanisms so that we’re not always an afterthought and that we’re seen as partners who bring value to the table. How do you think we can ensure these partnerships are Africa-centered and these financing mechanisms are Africa centered?

Tumi Mkhize Malebo: getting Africans in the room, pushing for voting power adjustments in institutions like the IMF and like the World Bank. I mean, right now, South Africa recently assumed the G20 presidency. So, platforms like that are a great place for Africa, like, make its voice be heard. So, I think it’s getting us into more rooms like that and just letting the world know what we need to need.

Adelle Onyango:

Tumi, thank you so much for being so giving of all of your insights, and very clear and concise on what needs to happen. And we have a lot to think about. Those numbers you gave in terms of what we’re losing, that’s a tough pill to swallow.

Tumi Mkhize Malebo:

It really is. It’s very scary.

Adelle Onyango:

Yes, but it helps to know what the situation is, and looking at the numbers, how far that money could go if it was handled right on the continent.

Tumi Mkhize Malebo:

Thank you guys so much for having me.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Adelle, that was such a great episode. You know, it seems when we talk about financing for development, and this is something that really came through in your conversations is that the solution is uniquely suited for a multilateral approach. Financing for development benefits everyone, and, therefore, ought to be something around which the international community rallies. It’s like international solidarity in action.

Adelle Onyango:

Absolutely, like that came out through the episode, but it also requires genuine international solidarity. And I think it was Amb. Milambo, who emphasized that multilateralism is at the heart of the pact of the future. Right? So, if we want to realize the SDGs, if we want to work on debt sustainability, everybody has a role to play. But I think one other thing that came out strongly, and some of the other guests have pointing out, is that it’s very clear that governments on the continent can’t do this alone.

So, like the private sector that needs to play the role, young entrepreneurs are also innovating, and so they can really drive transformation. So, yeah, financing for development is multilateral by nature. But after talking to all of our guests, I feel like the real test of solidarity is whether these partnerships are going to deliver in a way that’s transparent, that’s Africa-owned, and just inclusive, especially for young people.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

That, absolutely, came through as well. And then there’s this other idea that resonated is that when there are agreements, when that solidarity is there, it can only really be effective and impactful if these agreements around financing are actually put into action. You know, it’s one thing to have an agreement on paper, but the real opportunity for impact is getting resources into the hands of the people who know how to use it best. You know, the solutions are there. It’s in matching the people with those solutions to that funding — that’s like where the magic happens.

Adelle Onyango:

Exactly. And that’s something, Mark, that I have felt very strongly about. So it was so nice to hear people like Nabila pointed out that, like, these resources need to be in the hands of grassroots African organizations, who really know the realities best, and we must honor the experience and trust them to carry out the work. So, yes, the solutions are there, the innovation is there, and the real opportunity is making sure this financing flows all the way down to where it can do the most good.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Well, Adelle, again, what a great episode. Thank you so much. That was so great.

Adelle Onyango:

Thank you so much, Mark. I enjoyed this episode, and I’m really looking forward to the next episode that has everything to do with a trust deficit that, I think, not only Africa is experiencing, but it’s something we’re seeing around the world.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Thank you for listening to The Future of Africa — a special series on Global Dispatches, produced in partnership with the African Union, The Elders, and the United Nations Foundation. I’m Mark Leon Goldberg, the host and founder of Global Dispatches. This series is hosted by Adelle Onyango. It is edited and mixed by Levi Sharpe. You can find all episodes in this series and access episode transcripts at globaldispatches.org.

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What does it mean to make peace with nature — and why could that be the key to lasting peace between people? Former Colombian President Juan Manuel Santos shares the extraordinary indigenous mandate that shaped his leadership, while Hindou Oumarou Ibrahim explains how climate shocks in Africa are driving conflict and migration. Khouloud Ben Mansour brings in the youth, peace, and security lens, stressing that climate justice must include women and young leaders at the table. Across the conversation, you’ll hear why African knowledge systems are vital to global climate solutions, and how reframing climate as a security issue could shift the way the world responds.

Guests

• Hindou Oumarou Ibrahim, Chair of the Planetary Guardians and President of the Indigenous Women and Peoples Association of Chad

• Khouloud Ben Mansour, Tunisian junior diplomat and former African Union Youth Ambassador of Peace

• Juan Manuel Santos, former President of Colombia, Nobel Peace Prize laureate, Chair of The Elders

Background Materials

• Cooperation on Climate, Peace and Security is Needed Now, The Elders

• Africa Climate Security Risk Assessment, Africa Union

• Planetary Health Check, Planetary Guardians

Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every episode in this series is freely available. And be sure sign up for our newsletter to get each new episode and transcripts delivered straight to your inbox. This is a conversation you won’t want to miss—because the future of Africa is the future of the world.

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Transcript edited for clarity. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those of the guests and hosts, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast partners.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Welcome to The Future of Africa — a special series on Global Dispatches. I am Mark Leon Goldberg, the host and founder of Global Dispatches. And in several episodes over the coming weeks, we will bring you in-depth conversations designed to explore Africa’s future in the context of today’s challenges and opportunities. This series is produced in partnership with the African Union, The Elders, and the United Nations Foundation, and is hosted by the Kenyan journalist, Adelle Onyango.

I am truly thrilled to bring you this special project of Global Dispatches. We have some amazing guests in this episode and throughout the series. Enjoy!

Adelle Onyango:

Welcome to the Future of Africa Podcast, where we explore the bold ideas and leaders shaping Africa’s place in the world. I am your host, Adelle Onyango. And one thing’s for sure — climate change isn’t just an environmental challenge. In Africa, it’s a driver of geopolitical instability, community conflict, and tons of security risks. Droughts, floods, and shifting weather patterns are intensifying competition for resources, which then turns environmental stress into a peace and security issue.

In this episode, we explore the climate, peace, security nexus with three powerful voices from different vantage points. The first is President Juan Manuel Santos. He’s a former president of Colombia, also a Nobel Peace Prize Laureate and Chair of The Elders. And he will be connecting African experiences to global peacebuilding and climate diplomacy with the wealth of experience that he has.

Juan Manuel Santos:

Until we consider nature as a first-rate citizen and not a second-rate citizen, then there will be no peace with nature.

Adelle Onyango:

We’re also going to be talking to Hindou Oumarou Ibrahim. She’s an environmental activist from Chad and the President of the Association for Indigenous Women and Peoples of Chad. She’s bringing a grassroots indigenous perspective on resilience and conflict prevention.

Hindou Oumarou Ibrahim:

We have to live in harmony with nature, and that is what our ancestors are doing for thousands of years, through our own way of living.

Adelle Onyango:

Last, but not least, is Khouloud Ben Mansour. She’s a junior diplomat, climate negotiator with Tunisia’s Young Climate Change Negotiators Group, and a former African Union youth ambassador for peace. She’s offering a next-generation policy perspective on protecting vulnerable communities.

Khouloud Ben Mansour:

We talk about extremism, we talk about everything related to peace and security, but we know that climate is majorly one of the peace and security issues today in Africa.

Adelle Onyango:

Let’s get into it — starting off with Former President of Colombia, Juan Manuel Santos.

Thank you, President Juan, for making time to be on the podcast with us.

Juan Manuel Santos:

It’s a great pleasure and a great honor.

Adelle Onyango:

So, when we’re talking about international peace efforts, why do you feel like it’s important that we integrate climate considerations in that conversation?

Juan Manuel Santos:

I became acquainted with our indigenous communities and got really interested in their knowledge, their culture. I started talking to them. And the day I was inaugurated as president, that morning, I took a plane, one-hour flight, took a helicopter up in the mountains, more than 3000m above where the oldest indigenous community in the whole of the Americas lived. And I went to them, to their governors, to ask for their permission to go that afternoon and be sworn in by the Colombian Congress. They felt that that was a gesture that nobody had ever done — recognizing the importance of the indigenous communities.

And they gave me a baton, and they told me, “You have our permission, but you have a mandate. You, I know, want to finish this war, more than 50 years old, with the oldest and most powerful guerrilla group in the whole of the Americas, the FARC. So, our mandate is make peace with them, but also make peace with nature. Because if you don’t make peace with nature, it doesn’t matter if you make peace with the FARC, there will be no peace in the planet.”

That was my first personal experience. Well, I made peace with the FARC, very difficult but successful process. It lasted six years. But at the same time, Colombia started to promote the Sustainable Development Goals. It was a Colombian initiative. Two marvelous women that worked in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs came to me and said, “We have this idea. The Millennium Goals that expire in 2015 should be renegotiated, but with two new ingredients — the rich countries, the developed countries should take responsibility also, and the environmental factor should be introduced.”

And so, we started a process of multilateral diplomacy around the world. We ended up with 17 sustainable development goals. And in the year 2015, in a historic General Assembly, every single country voted for the Sustainable Development Goals. I went to the indigenous community. I took them the two documents, then I said, “Here is my mandate and here is the baton. You told me to give it back when I finish. Here it is. Mission accomplished.” And they said they’re very proud. And they said, “Listen, the peace with the FARC, with the guerrillas is okay, but the Sustainable Development Goals, they are not okay.”

And I said, “Why?” And they said, “Because the most important factor is lacking.” And I said, “What factor?” And they said the spiritual factor. And I said, “And what is that?” And they said something which is so amazing. And they said, “Until the human beings don’t feel that nature has life, that rivers have life, that mountains have life, that natures have rights, until they consider nature as a first-rate citizen and not a second-rate citizen, then there will be no peace with nature. And therefore, we don’t bless the Sustainable Development Goals.” And they gave me the bottom back. That you must continue trying to make peace with nature because your mandate has not been fulfilled.

Adelle Onyango:

It’s so incredibly well put in how they said you can make peace amongst communities, but you have to make peace with nature. And it really is a point of connection for me in Kenya, and the knowledge our African grandmothers and great-grandmothers had about climate and how Africans were already bringing to the table climate solutions and learning how to live in harmony with the environment and look out for each other in terms of how nature and humans are interlinked, as you said.

And sometimes I wonder, with the rising influence of African countries, sharing that we have this knowledge, sharing that we may be on the receiving end of the harmful effects when we’re talking about climate change, but we are also innovators and we also can give global solutions. That rising influence of African countries, how do you see it transforming global approaches to climate change and security? Do you think that’s been recognized as far as solution building is concerned on a global scale?

Juan Manuel Santos:

Well, fortunately, knowledge of the indigenous communities around the world, not only in Africa, finally is being recognized. Because for many, many decades, for centuries, it was ignored. Now, you see, in discussions in the United Nations, and all around the world, hear more what the indigenous communities have to say because they are the ones who know better how to protect nature. I will give you another anecdote that I have with the indigenous community. I became very interested in their knowledge and very interested in their concept of justice, and I took to them our national development plan that we have. Almost every country has a development plan that has to be approved by Congress.

And they said, “Mr. President, this is something that we cannot discuss with you.” And I said, “Why?” They said, “Because we have a completely different view of what development is.” And they said, “For you, for most of the humans around the world, development is constructing roads, building houses, extracting oil from the soil. For us, development is maintaining our culture, our traditions are harmony with nature. That is development for us.” So, we have a basic contradiction in what we think is development and what you think is development.

That was also a lesson for me. But I understood very well that their view of development is much more logical from the point of view of the environmentalist of protecting nature than ours. So, we have to hear more the indigenous communities around the world, in Africa, in Latin America, everywhere.

Adelle Onyango:

It really does speak to, even in terms of inclusion, how intentional you need to be with inclusion because already your definitions of development were in two different, not even two different pages, in two different books. So, you had to come back down to the basics to say, “Okay, we need to include what development means to this community, not a national agenda.” Do you think there is a way that international policies can borrow from that specific story when it comes to including indigenous communities in global policy and creating structures that could see us advance forward when we are looking at climate and peace discussions?

Juan Manuel Santos:

Unfortunately, we are seeing how more and more developing plants have sustainability as an important factor. We’re seeing how, in the universities, we are teaching the engineers to take into account the effect on the environment of what they do. So, slowly, what we’re doing, in fact, is incorporating that very basic knowledge that the way you develop cannot be contrary to what nature is demanding. Otherwise, we will never have peace with nature. So, we are advancing in that direction. Unfortunately, not fast enough. That’s why we have to promote, more and more, this type of changes in the paradigms of what we consider development, that we consider success, economic success. We have to start changing that in order to make it compatible with nature.

Adelle Onyango:

There is something else that has been coming up in the conversations we’ve been having on this show. And even in Kenya, it’s a conversation we’re having now, as we try and trust what leadership looks like for us going forward as a country. And it’s intergenerational conversation, intergenerational leadership or approach to setting policies on a national agenda. And I know this is something that is very important to you on a personal level, but also when we look at The Elders and your Intergenerational Call to Action that was coauthored by you, urging leaders to share power across generations.

So, that is really important, especially for me sitting here in Africa, knowing our youth numbers, knowing how vibrant and innovative our African youth are, knowing how important this is to you. What role do you see young people playing when it comes to climate action and pushing for peace?

Juan Manuel Santos:

As an elder, I learned an enormous amount from the wisdom of the youth. As different generations, we can inspire each other. And our former elder, Kofi Annan, which was one of the founding, with Nelson Mandela, and the others, he had a phrase which is very pertinent. He said, “You’re never too young to lead and never too old to learn.”

So, the elders, we are learning from our conversations with the young generations, and we are encouraging them to be more proactive. It is their future. Our generation, in a way, failed the coming generations because we did not do enough, and we are giving the new generations an enormous responsibility because of our failure. Many times I ask for forgiveness — Please forgive us. We failed you. But you must take the baton and persevere. It is in your hands. Unfortunately, we’re seeing different young organizations around the world. I was very, very pleased to see how Pacific Island students fighting climate change. They succeed in their struggle to have the International Court of Justice make a ruling about climate.

This is an enormous step because now this is a legal recognition by the highest court of the world that nature has rights. This is a major, major step in the right direction. And it was promoted by young people. We are trying to promote that in the COP30. Every country has a representation of the young people of their country in the delegation that the country is sending to Brazil. To have the voice of the young people expanded and heard more is so important right now.

Adelle Onyango:

I want us to go into and tap into your insights and your experience when it comes to negotiating peace agreements in Colombia because I feel like there’s many lessons or thought points that you could share with those who are listening. Perhaps it’s specifically African leaders and multilateral organizations who are also listening to this, to help them effectively integrate climate resilience and conflict prevention. So, during your experience negotiating the peace agreements in Colombia, were there lessons and key insights you took from that that you could share?

Juan Manuel Santos:

Again, I’m going to quote another elder, the founder, Nelson Mandela. I was inspired by him in a conversation that I had back in 1994. I remember I was chairing the eighth conference of the United Nations for Trade and Development called the UNCTAD, and he was elected chair of the 9th Conference. So I went to Johannesburg to formally give him the chair. I had not met him. He was president of South Africa. That morning, I turned on the public television in South Africa, I was in my hotel, and I started seeing a like a surreal live program. For the first time, the victims of the war in South Africa and the perpetrators were getting together, and they were filming that in real time. And some of them screamed at each other, hit each other, others embraced, others cried.

And I said, “This is crazy.” And that afternoon, I went to give the chair to Nelson Mandela. We had programed a meeting for 15 minutes. It lasted 3.5 hours. He started explaining to me how important it was to bring the victims and the perpetrators together and have them talk. And there’s a phrase of Nelson Mandela that I use very often. He said the most powerful weapon in the world is to sit down and talk. But talk in a constructive way. You don’t sit down to impose the way you think to the other person who thinks differently. You sit down to hear what the other person has to say in order to learn and discover common denominators that will bring you together, and then you can build an agreement despite the differences. This was a marvelous lesson that I had.

I used it in the peace process in Colombia. I sat down with the terrorists because they were called terrorists. Many people criticized me. But I said, “You don’t sit down with your friends to make peace. You sit down with the people you are fighting in order to make peace.” And so dialog, constructive dialog. Learn from the others who think differently — it’s so important in every aspect of government and of peacemaking, and also nature, the environment, and peacemaking. To sit down with the people who don’t believe in climate change, and instead of simply rejecting them, sit down and discuss it. “Listen, are you not seeing what is happening in the world?

This is because the temperature of the world is rising. It’s not that we want to stop the oil companies from producing oil. No, because we need to save the planet.” But it’s by talking, constructive dialog, that we can save the planet.

Adelle Onyango:

I’m also reminded of something that Barack Obama said recently, which is when it’s most important for you to listen is when you’re listening to someone you disagree with. That’s when you should really be listening to what they’re saying because there’s a lot to learn. And it’s really just going back to the fundamentals. One thing I really love about the shows that we’ve done on this podcast is one of the key takeaways is hope, and that there’s just always hope. And so, I want to know in terms of climate action, in terms of global peace, in this moment, what is giving you hope that we’re making progress?

Juan Manuel Santos:

My own experience gives me hope. Everybody told me that with the FARC was impossible. All my predecessors had failed. When I got elected, even my family told me, “How are you going to sit down with these people? You’re going to lose your political capital. Don’t do it. Don’t do it. You were elected as a war hero,” because I was. And I was the most popular politician in Colombia at that time. But I said, “No, I want to sit down and make peace.” Everybody says it’s not possible. But then, again, I will quote Nelson Mandela. Nelson Mandela said, “Everything is impossible until you make it possible.” And we made it possible. And I think, yes, we are going through a very difficult moment right now.

The multilateral system is crumbling, has been not respected. We see how many conflicts around the world. We have more than 140 conflicts around the world. Some of them, you don’t even hear about them. But they’re human tragedies in many parts of the world that you don’t hear about. And we are going through a very difficult process with our environmental policies. You see temperatures going up without precedent in almost every part of the world. You see the rains are much more intense in every part of the world. You see the fires going around more than ever. But you also see examples of processes that go in the right direction. And I am a natural optimist. I think that people will realize that we have to change, for example, in the United Nations, the reform of the United Nations.

I think that is something that is going to happen. Everybody was saying, “No, it’s impossible,” that the countries that have a veto power will never accept that. Well, they will accept it. And you see the trend. Just last week, I was in the United Nations talking about the two-state solution and the need to recognize Palestine. And just a year ago, they told me the developed countries and the G7 countries will never recognize Palestine. Well, in the last few weeks, France, UK, a few days ago, Canada, said we’re going to recognize Palestine. So, things change, and things change for the better when people realize that it’s in their hands to change it. And there, you need long-term leadership.

Leaders that don’t think about the next elections, but think about the next generations. And this is the type of leadership we have to promote. And the young people should promote that type of leadership.

Adelle Onyango:

Yes, I completely agree with you. I think we have an African proverb that says we should be planting trees that we’re not even going to enjoy the shade from. And that’s kind of like the leadership you’re looking at — people who are not looking for immediate gains or selfish gains, but are thinking beyond the now and beyond themselves. And, honestly, I just have to say thank you for being that kind of leader even with the work that you’re now currently doing with The Elders. It’s, how can we equip younger generations to do things that might outlive us?

Juan Manuel Santos:

Thank you, Adelle, and thank you for your work.

Adelle Onyango:

Let’s head over to Chad and hear from Hindou Oumarou Ibrahim

Hindou, welcome. Welcome to the podcast.

Hindou Oumarou Ibrahim

Hi. Thank you very much for having me.

Adelle Onyango:

Let’s start. First thing that I think we don’t see coming out a lot when we zero in on climate issues is how African communities have had sustainable practices for managing natural resources. This is core to the work that you do. So, maybe we can unpack the work that you do in terms of championing change when it comes to environmental issues.

Hindou Oumarou Ibrahim:

Coming from a community like mine, where the people are leaving from one place to another one to find watering pastures, it is already embedded in our way of living. The resilience, the adaptation, instigation, because we are the people that are depending from nature. We do not depend from the end of the day salary, where you can get your cash and go to the market. We depend from the rainfall that can penetrate the soil that can allow the trees to flourish, to give the fruits, that can allow the pasture to grow up to give our cattle food, and we can get a milk. And then we can build our food system, we can build our economy. So, that means we have to live in harmony with the nature.

And that is what our ancestors were doing, for thousands of years, through our own way of living. So, then we know where we can live during the drought, where we can stay during the flood. And that help us to ensure that the balance of the ecosystem is keeping. So, I see nomadic peoples, when you live with your cattle, you stay two days, three days in maximum in one week in one place. And when you leave this area, that means your cow dung helped to fertile the land. So, when you come back later, some months ago, so you found that that land has a lot of grass, have a lot of insects, and the birds in the ecosystem keep the balance. And all over the way that we are living in this movement, that means you fertile the land, naturally, and keeping the balance between the ecosystem.

And this is the best resilience and adaptation system ever. No chemical, no need for technology, but the best technology is us in nature.

Adelle Onyango:

What do you think is the stumbling block to seeing African communities and their strategies as global solutions to environmental issues?

Hindou Oumarou Ibrahim:

We are a global solution. This is not duped, and no discussion on that. Full stop. Because we didn’t create the climate change. It is the Western culture who abused the nature and who is actually overdeveloped, not only developed, over developed, and continuously just extracting from the nature. Who creates the climate change impact? We know, scientifically, Africa contribute little. And a country like Chad contribute even little to the climate change impact. So, that means we’re already, by creation, a solutions of sustainability. However, climate change has no frontiers. Climate impacts do not choose where they have to impact people. And most of the time, it is the place that you are not creating it that you are most impacted. So, this is the injustice of climate change. The world has to recognize and understand the way of living that Africans are doing is so generous without hurting anybody else.

We just sharing our way of living and protecting nature for everyone because there is no frontiers. It’s so amazing when I talk with my grandmother and when I talked with my cousin because we do the weather forecast just by observing the nature. And we can know if it’s going to rain in the next two hours, or if it’s going to be the rainy season in the next three months, or if the next year, 12 months later, is going to be a flooding year, or it’s going to be a dry year. And science do not know that. And I get the confirmation because I did invite the scientist people in my community. And when they went there, they just like stay, and suddenly the rain is coming. So, my people start packing this stuff. As nomadic, you don’t have a house that you can hide your stuff there. And then the scientists say like, “Are we moving?”

I’m like, “No, we are not moving. It’s just going to rain.” And then they look at the sky, he’s like, “Okay, it’s not going to rain.” Suddenly, you see the heavy rain start coming. We are packed with our stuff, and you see the scientists running, hiding somewhere in the big trees, looking at the bigger tree where they can hide themselves, and all the kids and the community are seeing like those people dressed well, and then running under the rain. They just like laughing on that. At the end of the rain, the conversation started. And then they come like, “How do you know it’s going to rain?” We’re like, “Well, we saw the little insect taking their eggs in the nests. We saw the wind direction that just changed. And, of course, we know in the next two hours it’s going to rain.”

They say, “Well, that is so interesting because you can check in your app in your phone, you can say it’s going to rain. Surprise, it’s sunny. Or it’s going to be sunny, surprise, it’s wind. So, how do you know that?” we say like we live with the nature. We do learn how the nature behave from the insect to the birds, to the cloud, to the star. So, we understand how they are living. So, we do have the knowledge, not because it’s not written that we are not expert. Our grandma and grandpa are PhD plus, plus. They are professor in multiple disciplines. Not only one. And not going to school does not mean we are ignorant people. We are so knowledgeable, and that needs to be understood and considered and respect.

Adelle Onyango:

Yeah, so we are so in-tune with nature, and we’ve been that way for years. You know something else, Hindou, that I find gets overlooked, especially when we’re talking about issues that affects people globally is the intersections. For example, when we talk about climate change, it’s very hard for people to understand where that overlaps with women. And I was quite interested in knowing about an association that you founded for Indigenous Women and Peoples of Chad.

So, maybe you can tell me and the person listening, what was the motivation behind that, and where climate and women meet? Because people often overlook that.

Hindou Oumarou Ibrahim:

So, you know why I speak English or French or whatever — thanks to my mom, despite the first connection with a woman. Because my mom was ahead of her generations, and then things like, “Well, even my kids cannot understand their culture, their identity, they have to understand the Western culture to make them more communicate or live better.” So, she sent us to school — me, my sister, and my brothers. But, of course, when I went to school, I have been marginalized in this community by the other kids that thinking you are coming from a indigenous communities, cattle herders, that I have my own milk, and this committee. And, of course, being a child, you just wanted to fight and tell them that I’m a human being, and I have a brain.

So, then I was fighting for that. But when I started becoming teenagers, I understood that the discrimination is not only for me as Hindou and for my sister that I’m fighting every day. It is for the girls who have my age, who never get the chance to go to school. They are doubly marginalized because they are early marriage. They do not go to school. They can get divorced. And they can just like live on their own. So, then I decided to change the life of myself, but also of those women. And I understood immediately you cannot talk about the girl’s right without talking about the woman right. And I understand you cannot talk about the woman right without talking about the community rights because we are living in a collective life. And immediately understood I cannot talk about the community without talking about environment because we live and depend from it.

And then my objective became more clear. In an age of 12 teenagers, I founded the Indigenous Women and People Associations of Chad, and I fight it till I was 16 before to get the official authorizations of that one. And for me, it’s how we can protect the rights of the woman in the right environment.

Adelle Onyango:

Congratulations. 12, and actually 16 is when you got the certification? This is incredible. And what was the reaction from your community when you started championing for women’s rights and also highlighting how this is linked to the environment?

Hindou Oumarou Ibrahim:

You know, we are in patriarchal society like in many African culture. So, for me, going to school is creating an identity for me because when I’m in the school, they say, “Oh, these indigenous girl,” that is my limit. When I go to my community, “Oh the city girl is there.” That’s me at the community level, the city girls is allowed to do something that the indigenous girls cannot do. So, I can go and sit with the elders, I can go and sit with the man, community leaders that the girls at the community cannot do. And then they just forgive me, accept me because I’m a city girl and I use these discrimination positively to try to tell them, “Listen, what’s happening this year? Why are you leaving because there is drought?”

Then I try to explain to them, like how we can do to change that, and I have an adult conversation with them because it is the things that they are discussing every single day. I do remember my first day having a women meeting. So, I went on the afternoon, so the elders prepared a tea. I sit down there as the only one woman and one young girl between them. So, then they serve the tea. Then I say like, “Listen, I wanted to discuss with the woman. We have to discuss about what they are doing every single day to go collect this water, food, medicine, etc. Then maybe I can get a project for them to help them.” They’re like, “Oh okay, yeah, why not?” So, I’m like, “Okay, may you help me to talk to them because you are the leaders, you are the man. So, if you can tell them, they can listen to you.” And then they feel like, of course we are the chiefs.

So, we can make that happen. The next day the work is done. I didn’t go to any women, but the women gather in one places. And then I went and I start a serious discussion with them. We had one day of discussion with the woman. The next day, when I wake up, and I’m walking between the communities, every month that crossed my eyes, they just start to laugh, smile. They’re like, “You, girl, you come to make a revolution in our community.” I’m like, “What did I do?” They’re like, hmm. That means they have a conversation with the wives. So, that was like the first thing I started — having a woman meeting, using the power of the man at the communities.

Adelle Onyango:

You know what’s so interesting? Is that you have found a way to identify what your privilege would be when you’re the city girl in the community, and using that privilege for impact, which is quite interesting, and in a very sneaky, but impactful way. So, when we look at the global discourse around climate change and issues around the environment, really, what do you think are the gaps as pertains to Africans, as pertains to how we are impacted by climate change, and the solutions towards climate change?

Hindou Oumarou Ibrahim:

When you go to the global climate negotiations, the discourse is different, and it is also divided like into two, I can say. You have the negotiators, those who are representing the country, who can be in the room, arguing because of the full stop or comma or one wording, to put tax of the negotiations. Then you have the global peoples who are attending the COP negotiations and trying to go from one corridor to another one to talk about what is the solution, how we can have a relation, etc.

So, in all those voices, it is not all the 196 countries that are sitting down to decide about the climate. Because, firstly, the language barrier. The climate negotiations is mostly in English, only in the plenary that you can have the six languages. And the African countries is not all of them that we speak English. And it’s not all of them who are knowledgeable about the climate change. And there is so many cannot discussions, so that makes big barriers. I do remember when we were negotiating the Paris Agreement, the countries like the U.S., like Europe, all of them, they come with all the experts, the lawyers, the judges, the people who can know how they can protect themselves later. But countries like ours go with the negotiators that some of them knowledgeable, others are tourist, etc.

At the end of the day, of course, it’s not equal to negotiate. And they’re imposing the way that they want. And, as they are the ones who create the climate impact, they have to pay for the adaptation and for mitigation, they start creating a law. They do not see that they have to pay. Their responsibility is to pay off the damage that they create. They are seeing as if they are making a fairer to the developing countries, to Africa. They’re just like, “Okay, you we can give you that and we can impose our own law.” And this is the injustice when it comes to the African going to the climate negotiation. However, we have a group who are very strong, who can tell them, like, “Either you accept it or either we do not accept your text that you are proposing.” But you have to be very strong staying until 5 AM

I do remember staying until 5 AM fight every single day, trying to negotiate. That’s how it’s helped us to include the five preferences of indigenous peoples. So, for the first time, we get the recognition of the rights of indigenous peoples. Two times, on the knowledge of indigenous peoples, because, of course, this is very helpful for them because they want to have your solution, but not to respect your right. And we one on participation. So, those five references helped us to push them to create certain kind of institutionalization of the indigenous peoples’ knowledge in indigenous peoples’ participation at the negotiation. But still, as I’m saying, we have all these climate fora who are very important, where we commit, we can take a decision, but the climate impact is becoming more higher and higher.

We are seeing people that are dying because of the conflict over the resources. That’s exactly what is happening in last May, 14 of May in Chad, where my community were there, another community come and killed 43 women, children, and babies just because of the land and access to the resources. And it is the same, the year before, where the fighting over the water and the land, it is the same where you are seeing the terrorist group around Boko Haram, around the Lake Chad that are growing, terrorizing peoples, getting their land.

It is the same when you go to Mali, to Burkina Faso, even to Kenya, to South Africa. So, all that, like the injustice, even we fight internationally, globally, but people are dying because of climate impact, and the global communities are not caring on reducing the simple emission.

Adelle Onyango:

There is a shift happening on the continent. I don’t know if you felt it, but like I feel it every day. In Kenya, we’re in the middle of it. If you look at Togo, if you looked at Senegal, even South Africa. I was reading things about Ghana recently. And there’s young Africans who want to be at the forefront of designing a new, liberated, strong Africa. We can’t do that if we don’t look at climate issues, clearly, as we discovered in our conversation. What do you think is the next smallest step that Africans listening needs to take so that they are informed so that they can be able to hold their own leaders accountable, and also the global partners accountable? What do you think is the next smaller step they can take?

Hindou Oumarou Ibrahim:

I think all Africans, especially the youth, we have to understand. We are the present in the future. We are the young continent. And we are the continent that are growing between the knowledge of our ancestors and the new technology that is coming from every corner of the world. And we are naturally innovators and solution makers. So, we have all the positive things that we should combine and build our future without letting anyone else to come and dictate to us what we should do, what we shouldn’t do. They say the hand that give you will not sustain you, but the hand that you create yourself, you know how to heal it even when it is sick.

So, we have the hand that we are creating ourself. And let me share an example. You know, in my projects, one of the favorite that I like is the participatory mapping, how I’m using the science, technology, and traditional knowledge of the communities to create a map by the community themself, to put the knowledge and to have a local adaptation plan. So, I use satellite image that of course we do not have in chat or in Africa. I use the first science that they have from the West there, but I use that with the knowledge of my ancestors. That I put it together. It’s a unique way to allow the community who didn’t like to school to be innovators, to create their own solutions. And that helped us for the first time to get woman land right.

Those women are doing agroecology, where they are creating their own food when they are restoring the ecosystem. We have hundreds and thousands of the nursery from the indigenous plant who are sacred trees that we are growing up now, that they can restore their own ecosystem, and they can create circular economy without anyone from the future coming and giving them the money or creating all the criteria that they have to respect. They can do it themselves. And they can sustain their life. They can create the future of their children. So, that’s like a small example I’m doing. So, we need to go together with all our innovation together is change our knowledge and ourself.

And we can be not only the future of Africa, but the future of the world that are creating peace, stability, security, fighting climate change around the world. So, it is up to us, and I really hope that we can do it.

Adelle Onyango:

Thank you so much for making the time to have this conversation with me.

Hindou Oumarou Ibrahim:

It’s a great pleasure. And yeah, we will do it together, all as Africa. We will change the wheel.

Adelle Onyango:

Last but not least, let’s hear from Khouloud Ben Mansour.

Thank you so much for making time to be on the podcast with us, Khouloud.

Khouloud Ben Mansour

I’m very honored.

Adelle Onyango:

A lot of people will see, even the title of this episode, Climate and Peace, and wonder how these two things are even related. And it’s not only issues peace, but climate and security threatens the rights, education, and futures of young people. And I want us to, maybe from your experience, if you could help the person listening understand how climate insecurity affects all of these other things.

Khouloud Ben Mansour:

Thank you. Of course, today’s climate change in Africa is no longer an environmental issue. It’s become a global or a continental issue that impacts also other key subjects such as our food security, our psychological stability, our peace itself. And when we speak about climate change, the very first thing that comes to our minds are the natural disasters, the natural events, droughts, the floods, desertification, disrupts, and how that impacts also fields like agriculture, which might be a very important field in some countries, and an income source. So, we’re talking also about financial stability and, therefore, other consequences that are shared by the people are impacted directly.

And as we know, Africa has been a very useful continent. We know that the majority of the people who would be vulnerable towards the climate events are young people. So, when we speak about climate change, we’re also talking about the implications of how these climate events may have serious impacts and major influence on their peace and security. Also, the inter-displacement issues for having to migrate either internally or outside of your country, meaning that they have to carry not only the environmental tolls, but also the psychological and the socioeconomic tolls that are caused by climate change.

We need to think about all the implications of climate change, not just to give a priority to one direct scope. That is the environment and the food security, but we also have so many other levels that are deeper and much more important, if not as equal as these subjects. So today, I think the first thing that governments and decision makers should consider is to make adaptation plans and mitigation plans at the same time. And Tunisia has already started developing its national adaptation plan, and they launched also a national youth strategy related to the climate change that was supported by the Ministry of Environment.

And the Young Negotiators Group, they were also part of that launch and part of developing that adaptation plan, which speaks about the willingness of the government to incorporate young people not only as the vulnerable groups towards these events, but also a key constituency to contribute to the enhancement of the future of young people in Tunisia.

Adelle Onyango:

You’ve kind of spoken a bit ahead, but maybe we can dive in a bit deeper in terms of collaboration between communities and governments. Aside from what you’ve talked about in terms of the adaptation plan, how have you seen this work? Are there examples that you’ve seen work where communities and governments actually come together, collaborate in terms of breaking the cycle of climate driven instability?

Khouloud Ben Mansour:

Of course, collaboration between the governments, either at the local, national, or even the regional levels, is very important because climate impacts, they don’t only stop at borders. When you reach the majority of regions or the majority of communities, it shows that the government is still as inclusive as possible in terms of integrating local communities into the climate mitigation plans or adaptation plans. I think in Africa, such collaboration has added value to attracting a larger joint funding from international partners. I have seen that a lot, especially with the cooperation of agencies, the collective action, it really signals more a long term vision. It’s much more sustainable and much more stronger. And, of course, it makes the accountability measure even more effective.

I’ll give you one example that I have seen in Kenya, and I think this was related to the water resource management. In Kenya, local eater user associations partner with county governments to manage and restore water catchment areas. So, what they do is communities, they identify local water priorities while the government provides technical and financial backing. You see how this complements each other. So, this has reduced water conflicts, and it improves also the irrigation for farmers. And in counties in Kenya that is impacted by droughts and has extreme climate events throughout the year, I think it’s important that, and a key, an important element like water management that they have started directly to provide support for that.

Also in Morocco, there was the oasis rehabilitation program because we understand the importance of oasis and how they provide not only pure oxygen, but they also provide a source of water as well. So, they are very important in North Africa. In southern Morocco, these local farmers cooperatives, they work with the government on pond growth restoration. So, they convert desertification. So, they try as much as they can. Then they restore these ponds in order to provide as much as possible water and to avoid desertification, because the country at some point, even once Tunisia as well, we have been at risk in 2023 of extreme heat temperatures and extreme drought. And that was a very, very alerting time for us.

And we had to cut down the water consumption. The country actually had to cut down every day, in a few hours, the consumption of water. And that was such an alerting sign. So, in the south of Morocco, the communities, they lead the implementing, they need the part where traditional water management systems. And then the government, what they do is that they support with the training and the funding and the climate resilient education, etc. What these farmers or what these local groups they would do is that they would get the funding, they would get the training. And then they would implement it in the regions where there is desertification issues or water management issues.

So, I think now when you see, even with tiny examples, if the country is supporting, it means that they say explicitly we have a solution for you. And that itself, even if it doesn’t solve the solution directly, it at least gives you a reassurance that I am backed up. I have somebody who would support me, or I have the solution as a plan B, and this climate event will not impact me. So, even psychologically, it will translate into a message of hope and it will decrease the risk of stress and escalating things to conflict. I think here today, when you speak about governance, it’s about time that we start from the root causes and start also from the regions where the access is really difficult, where the means are a bit limited.

And we should address the issues and we should provide support for them, starting with capacity building or starting with educating the community groups and starting also with providing rooms for collaboration as well.

Adelle Onyango:

So, what I do want to know now, because we’ve talked a lot about community-level intervention and governments, what do you think is one practical step that international policy needs to take when we look at addressing the climate peace security nexus?

Khouloud Ben Mansour:

At the moment, I think climate is still addressed in environmental agreements, but at the same time, peace and security are dealt with in a separate and Security Council or in the in the AU Peace and Security Council mandate, when reality the communities that are talking about, they don’t work in this space, they don’t live within these issues. They live a completely separate lifestyle. Today, if you want to go to the solution, you have to speak the language of the people. And not just give them the agreements and the conventions and the outcome reports and whatever that is being done at the negotiation rooms. These are very difficult terminologies and technical things for somebody who has 12 years old to understand.

So, today, what we need to do is to make climate more understandable information. Maybe in our education systems, we need to understand, we need to put a new subject called climate education, or have an entire subject that has climate and peace and security connected together so that people from the earlier generations, they understand the climate agenda and how it implicates them directly. I think one practical move also would be to make climate risk assessments mandatory and peacekeeping missions in conflict prevention in post-conflict recovery programs.

When we look at the documents, you would not find climate adjust that much. It’s either about mediation, conflict prevention. Or even if we speak about silencing the guns disarmament groups, we talk about extremism, we talk about everything related to social Security, but we know that climate is majorly one of the peace and security issues today in Africa. We should go from the government’s budget to adapt to climate, to understand, or to have an experience sharing with other countries that are advanced, and to see how we can also help mitigate these initiatives through the small budgets to small community groups in our countries.

Adelle Onyango:

Thank you so much, Khouloud, for being with us today and for the work that you do and have done in the past as well.

Khouloud Ben Mansour

Thank you so much.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Adelle, that was just such a great conversation. You know, it’s almost cliché at this point to say that Africa is ground zero for the impact of climate change on people’s lives. But it’s true — It’s where climate change most directly impacts the dynamics around conflict, peace, and security.

Adelle Onyango:

Exactly, Mark. And I think one key takeaway for me from this episode is just four words — make peace with nature. I think sometimes we get lost in a lot of the terminology, but ultimately that’s what we’re saying.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

You know, what I so appreciated about this conversation is how it brought together three very diverse voices. And, to me, when you bring international and inter-generational perspectives into conversations about climate, that’s when progress can actually be made.

Adelle Onyango:

And also, what was quite interesting is understanding how on the continent, Africa, we’re having conversations about including indigenous communities when it comes to solutions around climate change. And just hearing that that’s the case in other continents as well, it’s good to know because the information and the solutions have been there for decades. We just aren’t tapping into them enough.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Yeah, that was something that certainly came through in your conversations. It’s just how, for decades, or even centuries, there have been solutions to these ongoing climate problems. We just need to harness them using local knowledge.

Adelle Onyango:

It’s interesting just to see the similarities there are in fighting one common issue. And so, I guess this calls for us to have a more collaborative approach to climate action.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

So, this was a great episode. We have more in store for you in The Future of Africa series. Thank you all for listening, and follow us on globaldispatches.org, as well as be sure to subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your show. I am so excited for the rest of the series, Adelle.

Adelle Onyango:

Me too! Thanks, Mark. And I can’t wait for everyone to listen to episode three.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Thank you for listening to The Future of Africa — a special series on Global Dispatches produced in partnership with the African Union, The Elders, and the United Nations Foundation. I’m Mark Leon Goldberg, the host and founder of Global Dispatches. This series is hosted by Adelle Onyango. It is edited and mixed by Levi Sharpe. You can find all episodes in this series and access episode transcripts at globaldispatches.org.

Africa’s influence on global decision-making is rising as the world’s youngest and fastest-growing continent — but will young people be given the power to shape it? Chukwuemeka Eze lays out why legitimacy at home is the foundation for influence abroad, while Chido Mpemba champions young people’s leadership in every sphere of governance. Jake Obeng-Bediako warns against “waithood” as the lost years between education and meaningful leadership, and calls for young Africans to be decision-makers. Together, they highlight ways young African countries are navigating geopolitical shifts, increasing their role in multilateral forums, and leveraging demographic and economic momentum. This is a call-to-action for anyone who believes Africa should lead as an innovator on the world stage.

Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And be sure sign up for our newsletter to get each new episode and transcripts delivered straight to your inbox.

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Guest Speakers

• Jake Bediako, Director of Policy and Implementation for Global Citizens Move Afrika Initiative.

• Dr. Chukwuemeka Eze, Director for Democratic Futures in Africa at the Open Society Foundation

• Chido Mpemba, formerly the African Union’s Special Youth Envoy and currently the Advisor to the African Union Commission Chairperson for Women, Gender and Youth.

Background Materials

• Explaining the Current Path, ISS African Futures and Innovation platform

• Shape Africa, Office of the African Youth Envoy

• Three Major Africa Initiatives, Open Society Foundation

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Welcome to The Future of Africa — a special series on Global Dispatches. I am Mark Leon Goldberg, the host and founder of Global Dispatches. And in several episodes over the coming weeks, we will bring you in-depth conversations designed to explore Africa’s future in the context of today’s challenges and opportunities. This series is produced in partnership with the African Union, The Elders, and the United Nations Foundation, and is hosted by the Kenyan journalist Adelle Onyango.

I am truly thrilled to bring you this special project of Global Dispatches. We have some amazing guests in this episode and throughout the series. Enjoy!

Adelle Onyango:

Welcome to the Future of Africa, a show where we uncover the ideas, movements, and people who are shaping the continent’s next chapter. I’m your host, Adelle Onyango, and in this premiere episode, we’re exploring Africa’s rising global influence — Not in theory, but in real time. From the African Union to grassroots movements, a new wave of African voices are redefining how the continent shows up on the world stage.

Joining us for this conversation are three leaders who each bring a unique perspective to this shift. First is Dr. Chukwuemeka Eze. He works at the Open Society Foundation and has more than two decades of experience. He’s helped shape peace and governance frameworks across the continent, and continues to champion citizen-led, locally rooted diplomacy.

Dr. Chukwuemeka Eze:

Our leaders who fail to understand this are on the wrong side of history because this is championed by a new generation of leadership.

Adelle Onyango:

We’re also going to be hearing from Chido Mpemba. She’s a former African Union Special Youth Envoy, and now is the Advisor to the AU Commission chairperson on women, gender, and youth. Chido brings sharp insights into how young Africans are shaping multilateral partnerships and making their voices heard at the highest levels.

Chido Mpemba

How can we educate and engage, including with our African Member States, to ensure that in whatever meeting is being held, it’s inclusive of the young people being on the table?

Adelle Onyango:

Last, but definitely not least, we’re going to be joined by Jake Bediako, the Director of Policy and Implementation for Global Citizen’s Move Africa Initiative. He’s a former presidential advisor in Ghana. And Jake represents a generation of young Africans entering public service with the intention to shift systems from the inside, and also roping in Africans in the diaspora.

Jake Bediako:

So, if Africa is serious about young people in positions of power, we are going to need a societal communal overhaul of how we even think about young people and our capabilities.

Adelle Onyango:

Together, they impact how inclusive governance, intergenerational collaboration, and bold leadership can amplify Africa’s voice globally, and why now is the time to act. So, let’s get into it. First off, let’s hear from Dr. Eze.

Adelle Onyango:

So, Dr. Eze, thank you for making time to be with us and to have this conversation with me.

Dr. Chukwuemeka Eze:

Thank you so much for having me. But let me also correct that that position later changed to Director for Democratic Futures in Africa.

Adelle Onyango:

Got it. Thank you for that correction. And it sounds like the correction is even in line with the conversation because we’re looking at where are we going as a continent. But let’s start with the president. So, I’m coming to you from Kenya. And we have, for the past over a year, been having a lot of protests, a lot of active citizen conversations, a lot of back and forth about government, and sometimes it feels like, and this is not unique to Kenya, that citizens’ opinions and perspectives are not being taken account by the government, which is dear to specifically Kenya.

Because if you look at our pre-colonial times, even our culture back then was very attuned to democratic practices — so we had, like the council of elders, we had a communal way of engaging, we had consensus building. And so, I guess that’s why we resist it more when we feel like that’s not what we’re getting. But when we talk about democratic resilience, many people don’t think about the importance of understanding citizens’ perspectives and their perceptions of the government.

Why do you think this is key and critical and not only for governments to take into account, but it’s critical for us to improve and strengthen our influence internationally?

Dr. Chukwuemeka Eze:

I remember clearly that in a recent lecture delivered by the president of Open Society Foundations, she unambiguously stated the ideals of an open society, human rights, equity, and justice are under threat, and that there is greater polarization and the spirit of global solidarity, which has given way to fighting levels of insularity in many places. One thing that, in my opinion, we must be clear about is that Africa is witnessing the emergence of a new political dispensation. And our leaders who fail to understand this are on the wrong side of history because this is championed by a new generation of leadership, new political cultures, and new forms of people power.

And they are rendering creative districts unnuanced strategies and providing same in places and processes, which could disrupt historical and new anti-democratic forces. They’re building new leadership and offering alternative ways of doing politics in ways that foster social cohesion. So, what is happening in Kenya, Nigeria, South Africa, where this new generation of leaders, I imagine, is simply organic because this could now lead the foundation of a broad-based new social contract with the reformed African states, which will reform African states. Because, as a political scientist, I’ve always argued we don’t have African states. What we have is states in Africa. No states in Africa developed organically. So, this, in my opinion, is a unique opportunity that must be understood for Africa to leverage and remain relevant in international politics, governance, and diplomacy.

Understanding citizens' perception of governance, democracy and leadership is important. Not just for building better societies at home, but for Africa’s credibility and influence abroad. And it is no longer enough for government to meet technical benchmarks. If people feel excluded on head or hand, the legitimacy of those democracies fall apart. This has real consequences for how Africa is received and respected globally. So, Africa’s local democracy and governance must stand out as mirroring international best practices and standards. And if you take a good example at African Union and other supranational institutions, with their peace and security architecture and governance frameworks, they have struggled to enforce their own norms. SADC’s response or indifference to the crisis struggle of people of Zimbabwe, Mozambique, and Eswatini, ECOWAS’ loss of three of its members to the Alliance for Sahelian States are all very sobering examples. So, if Africa wants to lead globally, it must first prove that it can uphold its own rules and reflect the democratic aspirations of African citizens. International influence starts with legitimacy at home.

Adelle Onyango:

Yeah, and Dr. Eze, it’s so interesting. I’ve never heard that before. You’ve really given me food for thought specific to, in a very generic way, states being formed right now, and that being an opportunity for us to really change the course of history for Africa. And I agree with you because, for the first time, it’s very easy to get a feel of what citizens of a particular country feel.

If we look at digital platforms have made that so much easier. So, if you want to influence outside of your country, yet we can get firsthand top-level knowledge of what your citizens are feeling, which wasn’t the case before, and they are doubting you, it kind of chips away at your ability to influence anyone. So, I completely agree with you on that.

When we talk about these issues, accountability and transparency have been said to be the lifeblood of democratic resilience, right? I know you’ve touched on it, but maybe we could speak to three to five ways in which African nations can build stronger democratic resilience in the face of the different pressures, be it external or internal pressures. And perhaps a good place to start is to talk about the internal and external pressures that the nations are facing.

Dr. Chukwuemeka Eze:

As nation states continue to progress amidst divergent political influences, struggle for superiority, and borrowing from youth technological advancements, political interests and socioeconomic cleavages and, more importantly, the complexities of state-to-state relations and the entrusted politics which continue to deepen. My belief is that the capacity of states to respond adequately to growing internal and external pressures and challenges will depend on its strategic alliance and inclusive approaches to governance. Let me share maybe four key lessons through the lens of my current role as the Director for Democratic Futures in Africa at Open Society Foundation. Lesson number one — Democracy is not gratification. Bold choices build democracy up. I often think about democracy and autocracy. And you are from Kenya, so you will understand it better than I do as a relay race.

The only difference is that the autocrats jump the gun, getting ahead early while the Democrats are still deciding what to do. But Democrats, when they eventually move forward, can hand over the baton to fresh legs. Every team member contribute their skills and expertise. They cheer each other on. And, as the saying goes, this is an African cliché — if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, then go together. That’s democracy in a nutshell. Hard work pays off. And we must begin to build on those elements that provide stable democracies. The second lesson is that to establish inclusive, socially cohesive, right-based and just African democracy is rooted in ubuntu, which, in your opening, you already alluded to, is an Africa philosophy for reciprocal, mutual, and solidarity-based humanism and dignity.

We must invest in reimagining politics and governance by strengthening the organizational and mobilization of power of diverse intergenerational and intersectional constituencies, such as youths, women, trade unions, social movements, artists, traditional civil society, peri-urban and rural communities. And not just the elites in Nairobi, in Lagos, in Abuja, in Johannesburg, and so on and so forth. The third lesson is that global order that once promised mutual accountability is flattening. You can imagine Russia’s war on Ukraine that continues to rage. The Israeli onslaught and assaults on Gaza has claimed thousands of lives. Even stable democracies have veered into illiberalism.

So, building a resilient democracy therefore requires strengthening the power of citizens to organize and mobilize beyond this historical identity and cleavages based on shared economic value and visions, which can remedy historical fragmentation from ethno-regional, religious, gender and class identities; in turn, focusing on mutually agreed socioeconomic rights, therefore, demand an alternative economic vision, which will enable social movements and civil society activism and political actors to evolve what I call peoples manifesto.

Drive policy and institutional reforms agenda, as recently witnessed in Kenya, Nigeria. The last lesson, which also touches on some of our intergovernmental organizations, is that nowhere is democratic backsliding and illiberalism more visible than in parts of Africa. In the last four years, Sudan, Gabon, Guinea, Conakry, Burkina Faso, Mali, and Niger have all experienced some kind of political instability and military takeovers.

Many coincidentally greeted not their outreach, but with popular support. What’s more, the latter three countries I mentioned, which remain under military rule, have withdrawn from the regional economic communities and accused ECOWAS of docility. So, whenever this happens, my reading is that people are not welcome in the military. People are welcoming a new hope when democracy has failed. So, this is not an endorsement of authoritarianism. Rather, it is a rejection of democracy that has failed to deliver dignity, livelihood, or justice. And we must learn from this and build better democratic futures in Africa.

Adelle Onyango:

That’s so interesting because when you see people leaning towards military rule, becoming more popular with citizens, it is that. It’s a welcoming of something that’s different. It’s a lack of feeling like the previous regimes have let you down. The previous systems do not work, and so this is our only hope. And so you’re right — that actually speaks to just the breakdown, the breakdown in democratic resilience.

I wonder if we could go into citizens because now we’ve touched on our reaction to what comes in place after the failure on the promises that governments that were in charge have had. What role do citizens play in safeguarding democracy resilience? Because a lot of times, the energy and the attitude that we have is that these things are happening to us and that we have no power. So, what role would you say citizens play in this?

Dr. Chukwuemeka Eze:

So, here is the catch — We have a demography of a median age of 18 and a projected population of 2.5 billion by 2050. So, when we are talking about citizens, let us be specific that we are looking at this demography, and not just the old politicians. So, when I hear the cliché that the future belongs to this demography, I always counter it by saying today actually belongs to them.

Adelle Onyango:

Yes.

Dr. Chukwuemeka Eze:

And they are no longer waiting to be given that hope. They want to see this hope today. But if we don’t leverage this demography, then it becomes a source of instability and frustration. So, if we are serious about amplifying Africa’s voices in multilateral forums, then the young people should no longer be giving what you call a tokenized participations. There needs to be sharper, there need to be more intentionality about how we deal with them. So, the current generation of what we have does not add up if you look at this demographic. So, a deliberate effort to rebuild a collective sense of identity that surpasses parochial division of religion, tribe, ethnicity, and race is important. And I think that if you, for example, should champion this.

Also included in this is the assumption that the effort geared towards the strengthening of dialog spaces and platforms through the application of accessible digital technology, civic education beyond national level to subregional level is important for constant stakeholders engagement. The citizens no longer should depend on politicians’ manifesto as what should deliver democracy. It is only in our work line that I see the employers of labor depend on the employees to tell them what to do.

We only argue about politicians’ manifesto whether they’ve delivered or not. So, if you ask me, we are talking about democracy within the context of social contract. Who designs the social contract? What is the terms of reference for the social contract? So, citizens need to sit down and articulate a plan of action, whether they’re extracting it from the AU Agenda 2063 or National Development Plans.

They should be the ones not telling the politician, “Drop your manifesto. This is the citizen’s manifesto that should guide your operations.” And then monitor and evaluate performance. The politician understand this. And that’s why when they say we are engaged in participatory democracy, it is participatory democracy as defined by them rather than defined by the citizens. We must champion programs and activities that now strengthen public institutions that support and sustain democracy, such as judiciary, security sector, to function effectively. And no longer shall we, as citizens, continue to abide by this principle of state security over and above human security, or what you can call citizens welfare.

Adelle Onyango:

You know what, Dr. Eze? This is so true because even issues around public participation, you will find that your country, again, I’ll just say Kenya because this is where I’m from and it’s the context I understand very well — we have an incredible constitution, and that constitution enables us as the citizens to hold these leaders accountable. And it gives us a framework to take part in public participation.

And once we started doing more of it over the last two years, we realized, actually, we need to change how this public participation is done to include more communities, just referencing what you spoke about earlier. But we would not have known as citizens if we also were not active and took a more passive role. And so, I completely agree with you on that. When we talk about regional institutions, you’ve spoken to the AU, but do you see there being more of a role they need to take in holding their member states more accountable when we can see erosion of democracy happening, or what more do you think they need to do?

Dr. Chukwuemeka Eze:

Part of the work I am leading at the Open Society Foundation today aims to advance regional laws and policies that promotes democratic governance, and making sure that citizens voices are at the center of that process. We are supporting civic actors, but also supporting African Union — ECOWAS, ECOSOC — and some of these citizens fora pushing for citizens-focused politics and policies reform in the Africa Peer Review mechanism, and the strengthening of civic oversight of elections and governance frameworks at the regional level. So, we are working with critical actors to strengthen these regional institutions and amplifying citizens’ demand for dignity, rights, and accountability. So, as a result, we are working in places facing real democratic challenges like the Sahel and the Horn of Africa. We are supporting a coalition of civil society groups investing in new leadership, and working with regional bodies to push for reforms like term limits, political party accountability, and more inclusive participation.

We are also partnering with the UNDP and African Union, and supporting the Africa Facility to support inclusive transitions in countries like Mali, Niger, and Burkina Faso to return to constitutional democracy. Our intention is — how do we create spaces for young people and women to share peace negotiations, political future, not just as observers but as leaders? And I believe that to truly safeguard democracy, these regional institutions like AU and the rest need more than just good intentions.

They must be adequately resourced and politically empowered to respond to the continent’s evolving challenges and implement their own standards. However, most importantly, member states must recommit to the spirit of collective responsibility. Supranational institutions can only be as strong as the political leadership behind them. And without genuine cooperation and alignment between national and regional actors. The promise of continental unity will remain a dream.

The longer we defend integration and unity, the more we risk fragmentation, instability, and the erosion of Africa’s democratic goals and decreasing influence on the continent and globally. So, I know that our politicians understand that when they want to engage in bad behaviors at home, the first thing they do is to weaken either regional economic communities or the continental body, and hide under sovereignty. But I think that part of what the citizens must ensure is that democracy in Kenya can only be sustained if democracy in Ghana is functional. So long as any part of Africa is under authoritarian regime, or engage in illiberalism, and all that which is against open society values, Africa’s democracy is still fragile.

Adelle Onyango:

That is such a key point, Dr. Eze, and we’re seeing it now even with the same demographic you’re talking about — the African youth. When they are banding together to hold governments accountable, they’re actually, in a very, almost natural way, supporting that oppression in Togo, oppression in Kenya, oppression in Ghana is interlinked. So, they have already figured that out. I think that’s such an important point to note. And I have to commend the work you’re doing in terms of reforming regional laws because that will really help with holding states accountable. As you’ve said, they hide behind sovereignty, but they have to be held accountable, even by regional institutions.

Dr. Chukwuemeka Eze:

Why do we expect more from our multilateral institutions, we also need to know that old normative frameworks can no longer apply to today’s challenges.

Adelle Onyango:

So, there has to be reforms there as well.

Dr. Chukwuemeka Eze:

I’m not sure what else is reform. I think it’s overhaul.

Adelle Onyango:

Perhaps. Thank you, Dr. Eze, for sharing your insights and for the work that you’re doing because it’s really important.

Dr. Chukwuemeka Eze:

Thank you.

Adelle Onyango:

Now, let’s get into the importance of engaging young Africans in global finance discussions. Let’s hear from Chido.

Chido Cleopatra Mpemba — first, I have to say welcome before I talk about the incredible stuff that you’ve done. It’s such an honor to have this conversation with you and to have you on the podcast.

Chido Mpemba:

Thank you so much.

Adelle Onyango:

You have made history as the youngest senior official in the history of the African Union. And this was as the Youth Envoy, where you assisted in championing youth development issues in Africa, which is incredible work. But I also do have to congratulate you, I’m a couple of weeks late, but congratulations on being an Advisor to the Chairperson of the African Union Commission. And you’re going to be focusing on women, gender, and youth. So, congratulations on this new role as well.

Chido Mpemba:

Thank you.

Adelle Onyango:

When we talk about issues around global financing, I think what I find, which is a common misconception that maybe we can start off by unpacking, is that young Africans don’t engage with issues around global financing, or they don’t have expectations. I don’t think this is true, but maybe we could unpack that with you. What do you think young Africans expect from global financing?

Chido Mpemba:

I think, first of all, we need to touch on the fact that the youngest demographic that we have on the continent are the young people. So, whatever decision or whatever influence that’s going to happen in Africa, it’s going to affect this largest demographic. As a result, young people are interested in every single topic that has to do with their development. We’ve seen that there’s a rise in high unemployment. We see that there’s a lot of conflict across the continent. And this usually affects young people. So, it’s important that, as a result of this, whatever financing architecture is in place is able to go and address such issues that ultimately then impact the young people on the continent.

Now, another thing is this misconception that young people are not really interested in global finance and in architecture. But to be honest, I don’t really necessarily think that it’s because they’re not interested. At times, it’s also because they do not have the knowledge. We all know that knowledge is power. You can only tap into something when you know what it is about and you actually have the knowledge. So, it’s now upon ourselves as different organizations — intergovernmental organizations, multilateral institutions, governance, and even civil society that work with these multilateral institutions — to ensure that the information is out there and young people are aware on what is happening in this multilateral space, what is happening in global financial architecture, and how exactly they can also tap into that. And also go down to education.

When you talk about education, access to education is not enough. We need access to quality education, and education that actually speaks about the current affairs. How do we ensure that we have that education, including in Africa, where young person, as early as being in primary school, is actually aware and is engaged on the global financial architecture and its systems? A lot of people know about the UN, the SDG goals, but I think it’s also important that we speak about the African Union and Agenda 2063, which also is a nexus on the SDG goals, and also looking into these history. Because when you look at the history that most of the young people even learn at schools — not necessarily having to do with development or where we’ve come as Africa in terms of our own development and financial architecture.

Adelle Onyango:

I actually remember being in Addis for the launch of the Youth Chapter of Agenda 2063, and just coming from a media background, talking about how do we break down these issues in a way that young Africans get to touch all of these issues, if we’re talking about global financing, that affects them. And so I’m going to throw into your answer the media as well. The way we talk about the contracts our countries get into has to be in a way that the youth can understand exactly what this means, and not in a way that is excluding them.

Now, I think we can’t, especially when I talk about global financing, we can’t ignore conversations that have been had from before, and even currently when it comes to our African leaders, who are of an older generation, getting very fair criticism for the financing contracts they get into that a lot of Africans feel are quite exploitative and don’t put Africa on the same value level as where the financing is coming from, or lock African countries into debt. And so, I think, in that model, I’m always wondering how we can get more African youth at the tables designing and shaping what these financing models look like.

So, when Africa goes to those negotiation tables, it’s not a begging situation, but it’s a situation that comes with both parties giving value. But I think we can only do that if we have African youth involved. I don’t know what your thoughts are on how we get more African youth involved in shaping these partnerships.

Chido Mpemba:

I totally agree with you. I think it also has to do with our policies, our African policies — how inclusive are our policies towards young people being on the table? We need to start with that. How can we advocate and engage, including with our African Member States, to ensure that in whatever meeting is being held, it’s inclusive of the young people being on the table. The innovative young people. Let’s not forget because the people of quite innovative. Number two, we also need to ensure that when we come to the table as young people, they need to know that we are professionals. We’re coming on the table as professionals.

It’s often such a misconception that young people are often volunteers or we’re doing a voluntary work on the sidelines or we’re doing our advocacy guidelines, but we’re actually professionals interested in the development of our continent. And if you think about it, in the next 20 or 30 years, we’ll be the ones in those decision-making tables, and the generation that’s going to come up to us is going to hold us responsible and accountable for that. So, it’s very important that if it means we’re going to have to bulldoze a way, to say, “Look, we are, and we mean business, and we’re coming as professionals to contribute to the development of our continent because the years to come…” especially when you sit in most of the room, the decision making table, you find that there’s a need for intergeneration leadership or transition of leadership.

How do you ensure that even those that have come before us, they have the knowledge, they have the history, they know what’s going on? And then we are coming in as the younger generation, we have our experience. You know, young people have been very resilient. We face it all — from conflict to high unemployment, just to name a few. So, we are coming with that exposure, that experience, and that innovation. But how do we ensure that there’s intergenerational core leadership? Because we’re not necessarily saying that we do not want the older generation on the table, we do not want them as leaders — but what we are saying is, how can we ensure that we’re able to get on the table together and have a wealth of knowledge coming from both ends, the younger generation and the older generation, and making it work out for our benefit?

Culture is also quite important. When we come to the table, the older generation needs to see that we are also here as professionals. And, as much as our African culture always calls us to be very respectful in the way we approach situations — that, yes, we are cognizant of that culture that we have as Africans, but at the same time, they do not get in the way of business and of professionalism, and also of us being taken seriously.

Adelle Onyango:

You know what? I hadn’t actually thought about it until you mentioned it, where a lot of, in terms of our policies, a lot of young people are sidelined to be volunteers, and it’s almost something you do as you wait for the thing you’re going to focus on, yet the organizations that you’re volunteering in are having such a huge impact on your life in general. And you know what? It’s quite interesting because young people do get involved in global financing, unfortunately, at the tail end when it comes to debt. So, for example, in Kenya, I remember just understanding the math of how much debt I, as a singular Kenyan, would owe, I think I was in my early 20s, for financing partnerships that were drawn up without my knowledge.

So, you are involved already. And so it’s like, how do we get you involved in like the structure? So, I agree with you. The policies and intergenerational approaches to it is really, really important. I would love to know, with your rich experience, have you encountered partnerships that you’re already seeing to impact African communities positively? Because maybe then we can borrow from frameworks that are already working.

Chido Mpemba:

In my role as the Special Envoy on Youth, I had the opportunity to work with a lot of organizations — be it financial institutions, be it multilateral organizations, be it civil society. And there are so many, so many examples of what can happen when we come together collectively. I’ll give one specific example, for instance, now a partnership with the UN Foundation and the Initiative of the Panel of the Future. Again, this specific initiative was on the Nexus of Agenda 2063 and the UN Sustainable Development Goals.

And also looking at it in the context of the Summit of the Future. How do we get more young voices, African voices on the table, and to have an understanding on how this is going to affect Africa for the future?

That conversation and that partnership was very crucial in that it was bringing the young people themselves on the table. At the same time, we had the multilateral institutions on the table, and then we had Africa, including Agenda 2063, on the table. But at the same time, that often needs funding and financing. So, where also have that opportunity to have that interest coming in from a developmental organization to say, “We’re looking to support and to fund this conversation just to make sure that it’s a mainstreamed conversation.”

But I also want to speak with another one, and this speaks more practically in terms of the impact that’s going down to individuals in countries across Africa. And one of them is a campaign that I was able to initiate in my role as a Special Envoy Youth for the African Union, and we call this the Make Africa Digital Campaign. The MAD Campaign. And the MAD Campaign was actually based on, number one, I went on a listening tour, when I became Youth Envoy, I went on a 60 day listening tour just to hear from young people and how they want to be represented, what are the issues that they’re faced with, and ultimately have that as a guide to the priority areas I was going to focus on in my role as the youth envoy.

And one of them was on digital transformation and innovation. As a result, we came up with a Make Africa Digital campaign, and we’re partnered with Google. And so far, we actually trained over 4,000 young people in nine countries through this initiative, where we train young people on digital literacy, literally, because this is where the future is going to. So. how do you ensure that young people are literate enough when it comes of the transformation of technology? But second to that, I then realized that inasmuch as we are training young people, not everyone has access to technology in Africa.

This is access to the technology, and even access to internet or affordable internet. I remember when we went to Ghana and we went to a village that’s just far off from Accra, and we were there and getting ready to train these young women in this village on digital literacy, and they’re saying, “First of all, just the access to a computer is very difficult in this community, and even the digital infrastructure.” So, I thought it’s also important in that case that, inasmuch as, yes, you’re working with this institution or working with Google on the aspect of training young people, but access is also equally important. And that also often means that we need to work with the member states. Agreeing to work with the member states, policymakers to open up this space in terms of internet affordability, in terms of infrastructure across the whole continent.

Thirdly, in the end, we actually developed a policy brief. And I launched this policy brief from the margins of the UN General Assembly last year in 2024 because once we’re doing the digital literacy trainings, we also would then convene consultations on the margins to say these are the issues and people are faced with. And ultimately, we put that in the policy brief to share with our member states. And this policy brief also focus on artificial intelligence, to say sustainable development and youth in Africa, and in terms of artificial intelligence, what needs to be done and what can be done, and how can this guide future financing?

Because it’s important that when you talk about financing, having access to financing, we should have done the research as well. We should have the knowledge on the ground and be able to show the evidence that these are the issues on the ground, and this is how you can address them. So, as a result, this is where the money can be put for the impact.

Adelle Onyango:

I want us to go back to the listening tour because I think so many leaders or potential leaders listening could learn from that. What does a listening tour look like? Because I think a lot of times, that step is missed.

Chido Mpemba:

For me, a listening towards being intentional and also be open to learning. Because when you’re going on the ground, yes, I might be coming from the African Union, or I might, at the time, have been appointed as a Special Envoy in Youth, but it doesn’t mean I know everything. I can learn so much from others in being on the ground, especially the people that I represent. So, it was very fulfilling, and it was such an eye-opener. And, actually, I had a model, an engagement model for the listening tour, so would actually start with a youth townhall meeting, would convene different stakeholders with youth townhall meeting.

And the second part of the model was community engagement. The community engagements literally go down to the communities, to the villages — sit down, talk to young people, talk to young women, get to understand, document as well, document their voices, how they want to be represented. And at the end, it’ll be political engagement. Because I said, since I have the seat that I’ve been given an honor and a privilege on the table, how do I make sure that, because of that seat and the access that has been provided, we make the most of it for young people?

So, I’d make sure, in every country that a visit, I would end with the policy and political engagement — be it, in some instances, those actually adhere to state level or ministerial level, but you actually sit down and say, “Look, I was in your country. This is what I discussed. This is what I saw on the ground. This is what I’m advocating for for the African Union. But at national level, because not one size fits all, this is what we hope for you to be able to do.”

Adelle Onyango:

Thank you, Chido, for the work that you do and the gems that you dropped for us today.

Chido Mpemba:

Thank you so much. It’s just been such an honor engaging with you.

Adelle Onyango:

Last but not least, let’s listen to how the creative economy can help place Africa on that global stage with Jake.

Jake, thank you for joining us on this podcast.

Jake Bediako:

I’m really excited to be here.

Adelle Onyango:

I would love to know your insights. Also, based on just your experience working and advising governments in Ghana, why should African governments leverage youth involvement in their policies? So, let’s start with the why before we pick your brain about the how.

Jake Bediako:

Africa is home to 70% of young people. Africa is 70% young people. And so, it’s not even a suggestion as to why governments should include… This is 70% of your population we’re dealing with. So, there’s really no excuse. The electorates, your taxpaying citizens, 70% of those people are young people. And so, it’s not really optional. But even more so, I think we’ve moved from the point on our continent and in the world, where young people are only leveraged for their energy. And now we need to get to the point where young people are in the driver’s seat of the world that they seek to inherit.

It’s not enough to have young people at the core of your mission, or your manifesto, or your policies. You actually have to involve them in it. Well, the initiatives that I helped drive was this initiative called Youth at the Table. It’s a mentorship conference to prepare young people for the decision-making tables of their various countries. And it’s drawing on the expertise of people who are much older to say, “Okay, how do we get where you are faster?” And that is extremely important because it’s not enough to wait anymore. There’s a book I read called The Bright Continent, and it was talking about a phenomenon in Africa where we have childhood waithood and then adulthood. Most people transition from childhood to adulthood.

But in Africa, it seems like over the decades, we’ve had this period in a young person’s life called waithood. And waithood is a waste of energy, is inefficient, and it is holding us back to develop mentally. And this is why it’s important that youth representation in government at decision-making tables is prioritized because it’s not enough, like I said, to just have policies that consider young people. It’s extremely important to have young people designing these policies. And so, the position I found myself in at age 27 when I started working in the government was fantastic for me, but it was not enough.

There should have been more of me at the decision-making table. I would be in a minority in so many rooms, advocating for things young people cared about. Because, obviously, I had to juggle that with the interests of other older groups while bearing in mind that we are 70% of the population. So, our concerns and our needs actually should be paramount. This is not for any government to overlook. And some governments have made strides. I mean, there was, at the time, I was youth advisor. There were two other youth advisors on the continent, and I think another country took on a youth advisor. So, Namibia started, Ghana followed, Uganda was also in the mix as well.

And then I think Botswana also added a youth advisor. But all that time we also then had the AU bring in the AU Youth Envoy, which also pushed the youth agenda. But the youth agenda in Africa is extremely critical to our development, and so it’s not something to be overlooked.

Adelle Onyango:

I’m 36 now. I feel like I have experienced waithood since I was in primary school because you’re kind of seeing the same leader saying, “Youth, your future is tomorrow. You’re the future of this country.” And they’ve been saying it across decades, and it’s like, how can we inject more young, fresh energies at the steering of agenda driving, policy driving? You’ve given one example, but I wonder if you have more. Some of the structures or projects or ways that you saw that you could help, though, wasn’t purely performative, because maybe that can inform youth advisor structures in other African countries.

Jake Bediako:

Structures are not only governmental. There are social structures at play as well. Being appointed by a forward-thinking president is not enough. You need the machinery behind you. And that is where the difficulty comes in, because, culturally, it’s difficult for people to take you seriously as a young person at that level because you’re the easiest person to pick on, because you’re a young person. There are so many barriers to young people engaging in this. So, it’s not even about being performative as much as it’s we as a society, we as a country, say we want this. We want young people to step up. We want to hold these things.

Our systems, our cultures, our societies do not support the growth of young people in these spaces. Young people, especially young women, go through this a lot because you see that a young woman steps into a space and takes authority, and speaking truth to power and trying to influence policies, and the response is usually not anything productive towards her. It’s this critique. It this telling her she should be a good girl. A lot of things that minimize the young people and the role that they can play. The policy around it can be fantastic. There can be leadership support for it.

But at the end of the day, I always say, even if you are appointed by a head of an organization, you have to work with the people within the organization. So, the organizational culture, the national culture, and for me, working on a governmental level, national culture is also important to take into consideration because that’s what you’re actually up against every day. It’s not even within. It is the people within the structures that be, and also the wider population. So if Africa is serious about young people in positions of power, we are going to need a societal communal overhaul of how we even think about young people and our capabilities.

Adelle Onyango:

That is so on point. I have a young African friend, a Kenyan woman who ran for office a couple of elections ago. She was campaigning in the community where she grew up in. Her family had lived there. She had a deep understanding of their issues. And, as the election grew closer, she was summoned by the elders, who are like a group of older men. And some of the questions they said is like, “You are our daughter’s age. How can we look towards you for instructions or direction?” And that really speaks to social structures, because I think sometimes we only think about the framework that you’re working within and not really the people you’re working with.

Jake Bediako:

And that exacerbates the waithood that I was talking about because these older men probably have their children in waithood, so they cannot understand that somebody has moved out of that into full-on adulthood and into leadership and into becoming the peer or even becoming their leader. So, it’s a lot to deal with. But that’s where the change needs to happen. Because we can have all the policies — Without that social change, it will be difficult to implement.

Adelle Onyango:

And when we look at forums like the African Union, what do you think they need to do more of in this bid to ensure that Africa’s influence is felt as an innovator, as a global leader? At least I know, for us in Kenya, they come under a lot of heat when people want them to do more and arrive more. What do you think they need to do more of?

Jake Bediako:

I think the African Union is undergoing a renaissance because Africa is a bright light at the moment. It has always been, but now the world recognizes our brilliance. And I think the African Union is recognizing that this is the time to leverage, and the time to leverage young people. If you’re following the journey of Chido Mpemba, who was the AU Youth Envoy, and is now the Advisor to the Chairperson on Women, Gender, and Youth, we are seeing the seriousness being brought to the conversation. And leveraging young people is a very important thing to do if the EU is really going to see the light of the future and the light of day, right?

Because the work that they’ve been doing has been flying under the radar. But I think a lot of us have started paying attention when we started seeing the youth engagement component to what they’ve been doing. Or maybe we just biased, and because we are young people, we are looking. But then, for me, I see a real opportunity for the AU to further its reach and to almost make themselves a household name through the engagement with young people.

Adelle Onyango:

Something that I’ve seen even the AU do really well is like tapping into the creative economy and into the arts. Let’s actually break down the arts, because I think the arts have such power in uniting people and sparking connection and even giving hope, because where Africa has come from, hope is like a key ingredient to get to that global stage, right?

Jake Bediako:

Yes, absolutely.

Adelle Onyango:

And so with the work that you do, I just want to pick your brain about the role the creative economy plays and the arts in uniting and building the Africa that we all want to see on a global stage.

Jake Bediako:

That is the most important thing to me at this time. Obviously, I’m biased because this is what I do, and it’s very important work. It’s the way to scale the impact of Africa in the world, the fastest. Because, like, we keep going back to this 70% youth population thing — who are the custodians of Africa’s creative sector, Africa’s creative growth? Who are the people that brought Africa to the world? It wasn’t the older people. It was actually young people who control the culture that took it to the next level. And so, it’s really important that we empower young people to do that. If you want to impact young people on the continent, it is the one foolproof way to impact the most young people across different social stratification, across different skills and interests and business levels, whether they want to be business owners or freelancers, everything in between, or they want to be full-time employees.

The creative sector is the easiest way to target young people on the continent. And so, if we want to do that, we have to create those global opportunities and those global standard opportunities to give them opportunity, right? So, to give them the impact that they need to have.

Adelle Onyango:

What would we need to change in terms of the social structures to allow the creative economy to propel us to the next level?

Jake Bediako:

We just need to show what’s possible. We need to show the scale and the magnitude and talk about the real impact that this can have. The creative sector is a multibillion-dollar sector. It’s not a sector to be played with. But then we are so focused on the traditional sectors of yesteryear, which have stabilized. But in terms of bringing growth and opportunity, the creative sector is the biggest, if not one of the biggest if I’m being conservative, but, in my opinion, is the biggest way, and the fastest way, the most effective and efficient way to scale opportunities on the continent.

Because you see, we look at it as — or maybe a performer will make money or an artist, and I’ll bring a little something. No, it is down to the person designing the stage, the person rigging, an architect who will do the floor plan. It’s everybody. It’s a sector that is also available and open to everybody. So, it’s really important that we look into it as a real sustainable sector in which we can create opportunities not just for our dubbed creatives, but people who have other skills but also have an interest in the creative sector.

Adelle Onyango:

And you know there is a ripple effect as well. Like, if you’re talking about that level of concerts happening, it’s also going to positively impact the tourism industry. If we’re talking about accommodation, if we’re talking about transport, if we’re talking about… Industries that may not even directly be part of the creative economy get impacted positively. What do you think is the role of the African diaspora in ensuring we’re holding up our continent on this global stage?

Jake Bediako:

The role of the African diaspora cannot be understated. We are a continent whose people were stolen from us. And for that reason, we are having to develop with less than our full capacity of human resource that was available to us. And so, coming home to the continent of Africans in the diaspora, whether it’s to Ghana or to Nigeria or to Kenya, or wherever, it’s actually a pooling of our resources. It’s the reversal of the brain drain that didn’t just start in the ’90s or the ’80s, but actually started 400 years ago. And so, what we are up against is pooling our resources back together so we can develop this continent. And so, the diaspora has to be involved. And this is why the AU has called the diaspora the 6th region, right?

Adelle Onyango:

Yeah.

Jake Bediako:

Because it is part of our constituency. We cannot do it without the diaspora, not because we on the continent are not working hard enough — no, no, no, no, no. And not because we don’t have what it takes. No, not at all. But there is a skills transfer and a knowledge transfer that is needed to be able to scale up. We’ve been out away building other countries that are now benefiting from the impact of having had where there was forced labor or immigrant labor. And now, it is Africa’s turn to benefit from that demographic and from that population that we have not had at our disposal for various reasons.

Adelle Onyango:

What do you think is the next smallest step? Because one thing that you say that I truly agree with is that there’s a responsibility for all of us.

Jake Bediako:

It’s about organizing and making those small personal decisions, whether it’s to wear African brands and promote them. It is also just advocating for African-related things in your workplace, or wherever you have influence, advocating for Africa. That is what is going to make it reverberate. There was not a concerted decision that Afrobeats would take over the world in this way. There were people working hard at it, but everybody that loved it put their hands to the plow, and that’s why we find ourselves where we are. We couldn’t have imagined Afrobeats being played in mainstream clubs in New York and London. That was unheard of when I was in university, and that was not even that long ago. And it’s those little actions that we all take in our workplaces, advocating for more African representation, or more policy work done in Africa, or more engagements with…

However, you can use your sphere of influence to promote Africa, you do that. and that is what is going to actually move the conversation forward.

Adelle Onyango:

Your insights on this podcast are very, very valuable. So, we thank you for making time for us.

Jake Bediako:

Thank you so much for having me.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Adelle, that was such a great episode, and a great debut to the series that I am really excited about.

Adelle Onyango:

Exactly. It really puts it to, at the core, what we’re trying to talk about in various aspects that Africa needs to take its place on the global stage.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

So, that was episode one of what will be a seven-episode series that we are releasing now through September. Some of the topics we cover include climate peace and security, partnerships and financing for development, how to close that trust deficit between people and their government, education and the future of work in Africa, the unique role of women in Africa’s rise, and how to tackle some of the continent’s most urgent health problems.

So, that is a lot to cover over the next few weeks. And Adelle, I know we are deep in the production process right now. What are you most excited about?

Adelle Onyango:

I think I’m excited about hearing solutions that are working in different African countries that the rest of the world can borrow.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

As I said, I am really excited for the rest of this series, and listeners, you are in for a treat. This is such a great debut episode, and I’m so excited for what we have in store over the coming months in the Future of Africa Podcast series. So, thanks so much, Adelle, and we’ll see you after the end of the next episode.

Adelle Onyango:

Thanks, Mark. Looking forward to the next episodes. And this, as you’ve said, has been a brilliant beginning, so there’s more to come.

Mark Leon Goldberg:

Thank you for listening to The Future of Africa — a special series on Global Dispatches produced in partnership with the African Union, The Elders, and the United Nations Foundation. I’m Mark Leon Goldberg, the host and founder of Global Dispatches. This series is hosted by Adelle Onyango. It is edited and mixed by Levi Sharpe. You can find all episodes in this series and access episode transcripts at globaldispatches.org.

That’s why Global Dispatches is proud to launch a bold new podcast series: The Future of Africa. Produced in partnership with the African Union, The Elders, and the United Nations Foundation, this series explores how Africa’s rising generation is transforming the world—and how global leaders are engaging with this dynamic shift.

Launching in the lead-up to the United Nations’ 80th anniversary and the appointment of the next UN Secretary-General, this series captures voices and ideas that will influence the global agenda for years to come. It’s a space for big-picture thinking, fresh perspectives, and practical solutions that can inspire action across borders.

Hosted by the powerhouse Kenyan journalist Adelle Onyango, The Future of Africa features intergenerational conversations between former presidents, Nobel Peace Prize winners, diplomats, and trailblazing young leaders. These are solutions-driven discussions tackling the most urgent issues of our time: climate, education, economic growth, governance, and more.

The first episode is live now—and it’s a must-listen. You’ll hear from:

• Jake Bediako, Director of Policy and Implementation for Global Citizens Move Afrika Initiative.

• Dr. Chukwuemeka Eze, Director for Democratic Futures in Africa at the Open Society Foundation

• Chido Mpemba, formerly the African Union’s Special Youth Envoy and currently the Advisor to the African Union Commission Chairperson for Women, Gender and Youth.

Together, they unpack Africa’s growing influence in global diplomacy.

Subscribe now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Every episode in this series is freely available. And be sure sign up for our newsletter to get each new episode and transcripts delivered straight to your inbox. This is a conversation you won’t want to miss—because the future of Africa is the future of the world.

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The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those of the guests and hosts, and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast’s partners.