The race for UN Secretary-General is heating up. At the end of the month, the Security Council will hold its first straw polls to test the viability of the candidates. Later today, the candidates will participate in a town hall at the UN, where they will be pressed on their views of the organization’s role in the world.
You’ll get sound bites from that forum. But for an in-depth understanding of how one candidate approaches multilateral diplomacy at this particularly fraught moment, I speak with María Fernanda Espinosa in this Global Dispatches exclusive.
María Fernanda Espinosa is a former foreign minister, defense minister, and UN ambassador for Ecuador. She also served as president of the UN General Assembly from 2018 to 2019. As she explains, she cut her teeth working with Indigenous communities in Ecuador—an experience that continues to shape her approach to diplomacy, politics, and problem-solving.
Now, she is running to become the next United Nations Secretary-General.
We cover a great deal of ground in this interview, including her proposal to create a crisis-prevention and early-action hub at the UN; her views on the organization’s role in conflicts involving Iran and Ukraine; how the Secretary-General can support global health and development; and what should replace the Sustainable Development Goals after their 2030 deadline.
This is an insightful interview with a leading international diplomat who wants to lead the United Nations at a particularly precarious moment in geopolitics. It is freely available here on Substack, on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Enjoy!
Transcript edited for clarity
Mark Leon Goldberg: Welcome to Global Dispatches. I am your host, Mark Leon Goldberg. I am joined today by María Fernanda Espinosa, former ambassador to the United Nations for Ecuador, former foreign minister and defense minister for Ecuador, former president of the General Assembly, but for the purposes of our conversation today, a candidate for UN Secretary General.
Welcome, Ms. Espinosa.
María Fernanda Espinosa: Very happy to be with you today, Mark, and thank you for the invitation.
Mark Leon Goldberg: Well, thank you for joining. So, I want to have just a very substantive conversation about the issues and challenges you would face should you become UN Secretary-General. But by way of introduction, I am curious of learning a little bit more about you and your own political style, your own diplomatic style. Are there any stories or anecdotes you can share that you think might be particularly illustrative of the approach you bring to diplomacy?
María Fernanda Espinosa: Well, I am not a career diplomat, and I have to acknowledge that. I’m a practitioner. So, my experience comes from being out there and practicing and exercising diplomacy at the community level a long time ago when I lived five years in the Amazon and worked with Indigenous peoples. That’s where I learned most of my listening skills and in trying to understand different standpoints, different cultures, different ways of coming together.
And, of course, in public office for so long that it allows me to be connected to the UN in all the different spaces, in the three pillars, serving as ambassador in Geneva and New York, understanding how the big machinery of the UN works on the human rights pillars, serving on the Human Rights Council as ambassador to New York, understanding more the political UN, being the president of the General Assembly, which is the highest UN position.
It’s the universally elected position where you represent 193 member states. And I would say, if you ask me about style, it’s, first of all, about the ability of deep listening, of humility, of understanding public service, not as a personal entitlement, but as a public earned trust of the people that you serve. Number two, leadership style that looks very much to outcomes, to impact, to results, not too much about process.
Sometimes in the UN, they confuse activity with impact, reports with impact. And that I understand very well, because as foreign minister, I was the counterpart of the UN Country Teams in how agencies and programs operate on the ground. So, you know, this is what I bring to the UN. And also, I would say I am a person that has the courage to take decisions that need to be taken.
And I’m saying this having transformed the armed forces of my country, almost 50,000 people with almost a similar budget of the UN budget and not being afraid of taking hard decisions.
In the case of a Secretary-General, these decisions, many of the decisions are in the hands of the Secretary-General, but also in her ability to work in consonance and in listening to the member states because you are a chief administrative officer. That’s what the charter said.
Mark Leon Goldberg: You mentioned the big machinery of the UN. I’ve been following your campaign closely for the last several months. One idea that you’ve put on the table is to create an early action and prevention hub. Can you just flesh out that idea a little bit? Why is a hub like this needed? What problems would it solve? And how would it work functionally?
María Fernanda Espinosa: First of all, it is known to the audience that the UN is undergoing a profound crisis, financial crisis, which for me, it’s a symptom of a deeper crisis, which is more an institutional crisis, a credibility crisis, an impact and delivery crisis. So, it would be strange for a candidate to say, “I will create or establish something new.” So, it’s the opposite. It is to use the already existing infrastructure within the UN in a better way. For example, most people don’t even know that there is something called the UNOCC, which is the UN Operations and Crisis Center of the UN.
It’s a big machinery producing excellent analysis, excellent early warning, but it goes through a very convoluted pathway until it reaches the Secretary-General. It has to be verified. It goes here, it comes there. The Prevention and Early Action Hub would be a device to inform the Secretary General 24-7 for the Secretary General to take decisions on time, to produce information that goes directly to member states, especially members of the Security Council, to alert on certain situations. I am not naive. I know that that can be also seen with a certain reluctance, being very careful about non-interference in particular situations.
But I am a politician and a practitioner in diplomacy, and that gives me the elements for judgment, for being extremely serious about how I use the information, how I alert member states, how I take decisions. What has happened with the UN recently, and I don’t need to tell the informed audience, but the UN arrives too little too late when the worst has happened, and we need to avoid that. Of course, prevention doesn’t come in the headlines. It doesn’t bring the cameras. But I think it is the best investment because the UN is about protecting people.
Mark Leon Goldberg: Well, is there a particular crisis in the world right now that you would see ripe as being sort of the focus of a hub like this? That if a hub like this was operational in the way you envision, we’d have more visibility about it being incipient and its potential consequences?
María Fernanda Espinosa: Sometimes prevention is not only having a conflict never happening. Prevention is an operational principle of the whole machinery of the UN. Prevent escalation, prevent humanitarian disaster, prevent human rights to be abused in all the cycle of a conflict. And when you say give a very specific and concrete example, I would say every conflict that now makes the headlines, it provides space for prevention, preventing the worst, being there when it’s needed, preventing escalation, preventing the worst, you know, to happen. Be it in Haiti, where we are living a multidimensional crisis of big proportions.
It is in my own region and I am following closely. Preventing the worst to happen in situation and context as such as South Sudan or Yemen, when the UN has a very strong presence. And with that, I say prevention has to be an operating principle. It cannot be just an announcement, not just a headline. I recall, and everybody talks about prevention, but how is that you make prevention operational? It has to be an operating principle.
In the way the UN deploys its muscle at the ground level, at the country level, especially in countries in conflict, or early warning, of course, before things happen. And that is very difficult to sell, Mark. It’s obvious — How is that you convince the donor community that they’re not going to see a conflict because they have invested in prevention before the worst happened? It’s very difficult to quantify. It’s very difficult to sell, but it’s still the core homework to do of the UN.
Mark Leon Goldberg: So you mentioned that it would probably be most impactful on crises and conflicts that are maybe a little farther from the headlines. One very much on the headline right now, of course, is Iran. It, like to a certain extent, Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine is a conflict that the Security Council itself is unable to confront for the fact that many of the belligerents are members of the Security Council.
But I’m curious to learn from you what role you see the Secretary-General as potentially playing in the crisis in Iran right now. Is there something that the office of the Secretary General can do, given divisions at the Security Council, to perhaps mitigate some of the impact of the crisis or to do conflict mediation itself on this kind of big-ticket, big-picture/big-ticket crisis like Iran?
María Fernanda Espinosa: Well, I think we have to accept that in the conflicts you just mentioned, we don’t see many references to the role of the UN. We don’t see the voice of the Secretary-General where it matters. And I think that the world of today, which has the highest number of armed conflicts since the Second World War. We are not living in times of peace and calm, unfortunately.
What is the role of the Secretary-General? Is to be present, to be available, to offer her good offices, to gain a space as being seen, perceived as an impartial player, as a bridge builder, whereas it’s Ukraine or Iran or the Middle East. And with that said, trust is something that you don’t declare — you earn. And how is that you earn the trust? It’s to be, as I mentioned before, perceived, seen, and tested as an impartial player, as an impartial actor, and be ready and be on call, but also be present.
And sometimes the Secretary General can and should take the front row. And sometimes the Secretary General and the UN needs to be in a supporting role. And we see that the UN is present in Ukraine, whether it’s dealing with prisoners, deploying humanitarian support, it’s there, it’s on the ground, but people don’t know that the UN is doing its job. In the case of Iran, there is UNOPS leading the charge on the issue of the Strait of Hormuz, for example. But the Secretary General needs to be more out there, more present, be persistent, be on call, and also adapt and to have the judgment of where to position the role of the Secretary General.
Because the contemporary geography of conflicts, the contemporary dynamics of conflict is very different. What we have in times, even recent times in the Iran-Iraq war or the Suez Canal, where the UN had a strong presence. I think it helps to see a Secretary General that is active, engaged, available, present where she needs to be. And that’s, I think, what the world is asking, crying for, to see a Secretary-General that is energetic, that is in action, that is there.
Mark Leon Goldberg: So, I think it’s fair to say that part of the reason conflicts are proliferating at the rate they are today is a consequence of the geopolitical fragmentation that has been underway over the last several years, if not decade and a half at least, That seems to be accelerating. But I wanted to turn gears a little bit and ask you about global health and development in the context of this geopolitical fragmentation that we’re underway.
To what extent do you see global health as a potential opportunity or area for consensus, despite the divisions that we’re seeing today, particularly among some of the major powers?
María Fernanda Espinosa: Global health, I think we learned the hard way during COVID-19. We discovered that, first of all, that we are radically interdependent, that something that happens in one corner of the planet can affect and impact the lives and the well-being of people thousands of miles away. That we are interconnected in that solutions to the threats to global health have to be collective and have to be based in solidarity and cooperation. And I think we learned that very clearly during COVID-19. And I think that the UN infrastructure also learned the hard way.
Number one, even the working modalities of the General Assembly. I just finished my tenure as president when all this happened, and I was in shock because the General Assembly didn’t have a plan B on how to operate under the circumstances. And I think now it’s better equipped, better prepared. The same happened with the mega impacts of COVID-19. We still haven’t recovered fully from the economic and financial impacts of COVID-19. So, I think global health is a test case for multilateralism.
It’s an opportunity. It showed that global responses and collective action is the only way. And we have seen also some regulatory developments after that that are very good. For example, the review of the global health regulations. This might seem very bureaucratic, but it’s very important because it’s the protocols of how the world should act in a pandemic, for example. We had all the efforts towards a pandemics treaty that really calls for global cooperation. There is the whole discussion of supply chain security.
There is a whole discussion of access to critical medicines and vaccines. So, that is a test case for multilateralism. There is a lot of space for improvement, but I think that we have gone far. We had this success story in the near past about how to deal with Ebola and the Ebola crisis. Unfortunately, Ebola is coming back and hurting countries like the Democratic Republic of Congo today. But I think this makes the case for the need of a strong, renewed, vibrant multilateral architecture for collective action.
Mark Leon Goldberg: Looking ahead, maybe, in your time as Secretary General in the coming years, are there other specific areas for multilateral cooperation on global health that you see as particularly ripe, ripe for the taking? And what role would the Secretary General be in helping to facilitate that kind of cooperation?
María Fernanda Espinosa: Well, absolutely. We have so many commitments, Mark, that are out there. The entire agenda of universal health coverage. I had the privilege to serve myself in the universal health coverage advisory mechanism. The issue of non-communicable diseases and the commitments that are behind that. Antimicrobial resistance, which is a world challenge and program. The issue of opioids and how it’s dealt with.
I mentioned the issue of pandemics. And I think health is something that is so connected to the human well-being, to human life, that it really pushes us to collaborate and work together. And we are not in shortage of commitments, of mandates that are out there. And I mentioned some of those that have emerged from the collective will of the General Assembly of the United Nations. So, the agendas are there, the opportunities are there.
It’s something where you see the importance of national ownership, but at the same time, regional cooperation, which is a very important piece of the puzzle in international cooperation, and also a very critical and important role for our norm-setting and regulation coming from the United Nations. So, there is a lot of space and work to do. Great progress, I would say. When you look at the Sustainable Development Goals, Many of the goals on global health have improved the issue of access to vaccines, for example. Others have reversed and regressed, which is a pity.
Mark Leon Goldberg: On that question about goals that have regressed, so the SDGs are due in 2030. One goal, for example, that is far from being achieved, progress has slowed significantly, is maternal mortality, for example. What role might the Secretary-General’s office play in advancing, say, progress on maternal mortality in the few years we have left towards the SDGs and also towards other health-related goals that progress has stalled on?
María Fernanda Espinosa: We have seen recently a few reports on progress on the Sustainable Development Goals, and I’m so disappointed. I don’t know how to say it better. One of the reports talks about the 16-16 and the rest, 16 goals that are on track, 16 goals that are regressing, that’s where we’re doing worse, and the rest stagnant. I don’t know the word, but that have remained the same. And other reports, a recent report for the HLPF that just happened in New York a few days ago…
Mark Leon Goldberg: That’s the High-Level Political Forum. That’s the kind of stocktaking around the SDGs that happens at the UN every year.
María Fernanda Espinosa: Exactly. Yes. High-Level Political Forum. And what we saw, the latest report, it’s 15, 20 and the rest. 15 of the goals on track. A 20% moderate progress. And all the rest, either stagnant or regressing. So, if you ask me if this is success, I would say absolutely not. What are the problems, not only on the goals in global health issues, but what is at the core of this? What is the problem? And the problem is, you know, manifold. Number one, I would say access to resources. Where are the finances?
Where are the resources that countries can count on to invest where they need to invest? Number two is access to technology. We live in a world of, we say, the technological revolution, artificial intelligence, when about 30% of the world population is offline. The issue of access, of being able to use this technological revolution that we are experiencing and where we see greatest inequalities. And the issue of institutional capacity to deliver. These are called the means of implementation. It is true for the health space, but it is true also for the overall package of the Sustainable Development Goals.
Next year, in 2027, we will have an opportunity to re-boost the agenda. It’s the new summit on the SDGs on 2027. By then, hopefully me, but there will be a new leadership in the UN. It will be an opportunity for an honest assessment to fast-track and supercharge implementation, but also to look at the drivers of non-implementation. And these goals comes from the issue of how you manage debt, the international financial architecture, the Sevilla Commitment and program of action on financing for developments, the going down of official development aid worldwide.
Again, as I said, it’s not only an issue of access to the resources, but access to technologies, institutional capacity, and above all, national ownership. I think that development cannot be prescribed for New York, and we need to change the whole business model of how the UN does development.
Mark Leon Goldberg: Well, so, to that end, you would be the Secretary General when the SDGs expire, when there might be something new to replace it. I suppose a twofold question, you know, do you think something ought to replace the SDGs in 2030 when they expire? And what form might that take?
María Fernanda Espinosa: Well, first of all, I think that 2030 is a timeline, is a reference timeline. I think that the sustainable development goals, but in general, the development agenda, it cannot be seen as an expired yogurt. The day it expires, you just throw the can. No, it doesn’t work like that. It’s a continuum. It is a process. And I think a new leadership at the UN would help make this transition in a substantive way, in a way where countries have the lead.
They own the process. They can look at how to transit to a better model of development, how they choose their own development pathways where the UN has a supporting role and cannot replace states in implementing little projects here and there, but really looking at the structure drivers and the challenges that countries face. And I’m speaking, coming from middle-income countries, having been nominated by a small island developing state. So, I know very well what the problems are.
The problems are debt problems, liquidity problems, the cost of capital problems, the supply chain and industrialization mechanisms in the world. So, it’s more complex than what we think. But I am an optimist, and I think that we can reverse the tide on the Sustainable Development Goals and be very careful about saying, 31st of December, the Sustainable Development Goals end and we start with something new. I think that there has been a very important learning curve. We need to be the continuum. We need a roadmap to continue the development pathways.
We need to put more weight into regional ownership, regional cooperation, national ownership, the role of cities, the role of communities, to look at how to localize and own better the Sustainable Development Goals. And in what ways, as Secretary General, in what ways we can be more demand driven and provide countries the support they need. We have to be, the UN Secretariat has to be more demand-driven and less prescriptive.
Mark Leon Goldberg: So, I’m glad you said you’re an optimist. I’m an optimist as well, though I admit it’s a little harder surveying the world today to sustain my optimism. Final question, what is the source of your optimism? Where does your optimism come from?
María Fernanda Espinosa: I think humankind. I have seen great ideas, great transformations from humans that have made a difference in the world. Building resilience, building peace. The Nelson Mandelas of the world have existed. They are humans. They were humans. They have left a very important footprint. I have worked with indigenous communities in the Amazon where I have seen how you can make your living, your livelihoods, your care for nature in ways that you cannot even imagine. So, I am an optimist because I believe in humankind, but I also believe in the potential, the opportunities, and the strength and the muscle of the United Nations. And that is why I have decided to put my 30 years of experience to the service of the United Nations.
Mark Leon Goldberg: Well, best of luck to you in your candidacy. Thank you so much, María Fernanda Espinosa, for joining me today.
María Fernanda Espinosa: Thank you, Mark. I was very, very happy to be with you today.
